Biblical Marriage

Sorry folks for being "in and out" of this thread so much but I just got "in" from being "out" of town.

Boaz and Ruth had a "marrriage by covenant".

Boaz made public announcement that if the next of kin would not fulfil his responsibility, he would.
He promised publically before the people.
He bought back the fields of his family member and restored them publically to Ruth.
He took her into his household to have and raise up children unto her previous heritage.

Marriage is to the family what the ordinaces are to the church. It is an act of worship. The State has intervened. It has no right to be intervening. It has no Biblical position to be involved in an act of worship. Marriage is a basic right of man, period. I do not need a state, any state to give me permission to do what God has told me I already have a right to do. God is my authority. The state has already without exception exercised authority over it's marriages. That fact cannot be denied in law or in history. Bro Larry already has stated his inadequacy in knowledge of the law.
The Ohio State Bar association puts out a pamphlet on this very issue. I quote, "Actually, when you repeat your marriage vows you enter into a legal contract. There are three parties to that contract: 1. You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. The State of Ohio. The state is a party to the contract because under its laws, you have certain duties to each other and to Ohio." Taken from "With this ring I thee wed", Ohio State Bar Association.
I am providing this information so that we may understand what it is that the state says about the issue of marriage. How can we obey according to Rom 13 without knowing the mindset of the state concerning the issue? So....I quote more: West's Law Encyclopedia next.
Section 1 Definition and Nature
A marriage is the union of one man and one woman for so long as they both shall live, to the exclusion of all others, by and obligation which, during that time, the parties cannot, of their own volition and act, dissolve, but which can be dissolved only by the authority of the State. Our Legislature has declared that marriage is a civil contract into which males of the age of eighteen and females of the age of sixteen, not nearer of kin than second cousins, and not having a husband or wife living, are capable of entering.
The purpose of the statutory characterization of marriage as a civil contract is to place the subject of marriage under the control of the civil authorities to the exclusion of the ecclesiastical. Under this statute marriage is a status founded on contract and is an institution regulated and controlled by law upon principles of public policy. Marriage has been futher described as a contract in which the public is interested, and to which the State is a party. (end of quote)

Try as you might you will not, I repeat you will not find any scripture authorizing the state to be involved in the covenant of marriage. As far as a Holy Marriage, it is a covenant between God as the only Authority, and the man and woman. It is done in front of witnesses and with a Minister of the Word of God present. This marriage is consumated by the stating of the marriage vows and cohabitation of a conjunal nature (act of marriage). The State marriage is consummated by a signed and delivered document by the minister who dispenses the vows, (info given upon request). When the state issues the lisence it becomes the prevailing third party to the contract. The state assumes total jurisdiction over the contract. It may without warning take over total control of the marriage and any offspring that the marriage produces, (info given upon req.). You might ramble on about Romans 13, but that does not give the state the right to be involved as a "Party". Romans 13 gives no authority for the public to be interested in a Holy Marriage and certainly not to be goveerned by "public policy". We know where "public policy" is headed today, not lisencensure, but licentiousnous. In a state approved marriage there is a servant master relationship. God has said,

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Thanks ----Bart "the dueling society was a polite society".

 

Something I learned last night(it came from a Jewish man who studies his history) that the ancient Hebrew people when they married the man(and his father) had to sign a legal(not religeous) paper(whatever they wrote on then) saying he was marrying this woman and would take care of her. A legal contract.
If the bible tells us to obey our goverment, and the goverment does not tell us to violate scripture( and it does not say not to have a marriage liicense) then we are obgliated to God to obey Him by obeying our goverment. I assume you obey the speed limit, guns in public building laws, or do you not obey to laws in our country(whatever country you live in of course)? The only excuse for disobeying the law is when it tells us we must disobey scripture. Otherwise we are disobeying scripture, becasue we demand it our way, and not God's.

 

Excellent posts, Donna. Thank you for stating it the way you did.

 

Bartimaeus said:

Walls has admitted she is in a 'covenant' marriage. Are you also in a marriage without a state marriage license? Do you practice what you 'preach'? Do you marry people without state licenses?

Diane

 

A marriage by covenant is a legal contract, the only difference is that God is the head and not the state. Many states recognize this as a marriage.

Just to throw this in, it was common practice to record marriage, births and deaths in the family Bible. It was signed by all parties involved. It was therefore binding and of course God was the head.

 

Which states recognize common law marriage?

Common law marriage is recognized only in the following states:

Alabama
Colorado
District of Columbia
Georgia (ONLY if created before 1/1/97)
Idaho (ONLY if created before 1/1/96)
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
New Hampshire (ONLY for inheritance purposes)
Ohio (ONLY if created before 10/10/91)
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Texas
Utah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

God designed marriage as the foundational element of all human society. before there was a church, a school, or a business instituted, God formally instituted marriage, declaring, "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." Genesis 2:24 (KJV)

Since God instituted marriage, it cannot be regulated according to human whims. Man has no right to do away with marriage; that is why I am personally against divorce.

Marriage as an institution is subject to the rules and regulations set down by God. God has revealed His will about marriage in the pages of the Bible. Individuals may marry, be divorced, and be remarried only if, when, and how He says they may.

No private individual or the state has any competence to decide who may be married and on what basis. The state has been given by God the task of keeping orderly records, etc., but it has no right or authority to determine the rules for marriage, that perogative is God's alone.

A marriage license is no more than a document certifying that a man and a woman have indeed been married. The state has no power to approve or deny a marriage.

I have a marriage license from the state of Illinois. It is not their approval on my marriage; it is their record of my marriage.

 

Well stated Pastor_Bob,

I don't condone divorce under ANY circumstance. Jesus told us to forgive our brother who sins against us 70 X 7 and I'll stand on HIS word.

I hear women all the time saying "We grew apart", "He's not the man I married", "We have nothing in common", "He changed", "I changed and he didn't", "God would want me to be happy", "doesn't love me the way I so richly deserve to be loved" .....

Diane

 

Dear Pastor Bob,
You make a lot of good points. Yet, in a civil society in which not every one is Christian or even agrees what marriage is, I think that there is a valid role given by God to government to help determine what a valid marriage is.

For example, what if someone wants to "marry" his grandmother and his dog? What if an old-fashioned Latter-Day Saint in Utah wants to marry 5 wives? What if a 12-year-old girl wants to marry two men or even one? Our current laws say no to all of that, blessedly.
If the "marriage" does not work out or if there is a death, even if it is an acceptable marriage by yours and my standards, should all legal consequences of custody of children, inheritance, property rights, etc., just be left to the pastor? How would he enforce his "rulings"? This is a legitimate function of the civil government that God has established.

Karen

 

If all it takes to make a marriage is live in the same house and have sex, then gays must be accepted as married also.
It's just plain unscriptural to say all a person has to do is have sex with someone and they are married.
God set up goverments on earth, adn He says in HIS word HE expects us to obey that goverment. You can not ignore what scripture directly says. By not obeying the goverment you are disobeying God,and choosing which of His commands are convient to you.
If you live in a state that recognizes a marriage without a license, then what happens when you go to a state that does not? You are not married! Your 'husand' has no legal custody of his children no say so for them, he can not make medical decisions for you, nor you for him, neither of you would be the others next of kin. If you lived in one of those states and died your 'spouse' legally does not inherit the others possessions without a will. Unless the medical insurance covers 'partners' who cohabitate you would not be covered by his insurance.
Theres a difference between just living together, and being married. Saying it is ok to disobey God, and that people can just live together cheapens marriage.
Some should consider this, How many of you (or your spouse) ever had s*x with someone before marriage? Were you married to them becasue of it? Does that now mean you are an adulter? (I recall a poll we once had about premarital s*x, and several from this board indicated they had, usually that was before becoming a christian, does God say those 'marriages' did not exsisted before becoming a christian so now it is ok to actually marry someone.)

 

double post sorry

 

It is not the "knowing" (which is one of the attributes) but the "cleaving." -- a work which God Himself performs.

???? So what does this say about God? It says that He is subjected to what each individual lawmaker from state to state decides in regards to marriage.

What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

 

I would not disagree with this. I still assert that the state has no authority to approve or deny a God-ordained marriage. Of course God-ordained would be a marriage that was consistent with the Word of God.

I personally believe that no one is married in God's eyes if that marriage has not been recognized by the laws of the land in which the couple lives. (Rom 13:4, Col 1:16)

God takes marriage very seriously; it is a sacred covenant not to be taken lightly. To not want to obey the laws of marriage given by government, our God-given authority, indicates that one is not ready to make the unbreakable covenant marriage requires.

It is true that sexual relations is the ultimate fulfillment of a couple becoming "one flesh" (Gen 2:24; Matt 19:5; Mark 10:8; 1 Cor 6:16; Eph 5:31). However, the act of sex does not make a couple married. If that were so, there would be not such thing as pre-marital sex; once a couple had sex, they were married.

The Bible calls "pre-marital sex" fornication. It is repeatedly condemned in Scripture along with all other forms of sexual immorality.

 

As I pondered this in my heart it occurred to me how that the Bible teaches the we believers are strangers and pilgrims in this land 1 Peter 2:21), and how that our true citizenship is in Heaven (Philippians 3:20).

I also thought about what Jesus said in Matthew:

Mt 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Mt 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 

Let's go back for a moment to the commands on which ALL the law and prophets hang: Love God with everything in you and love your neighbor as yourself.

I can appreciate that both sides here seem to have a love of God in mind. My concern is the love of neighbor. What does it say to our neighbors and the children we influence when we circumvent the law of the land and the APPEARANCE of morality in order to define the Bible as we choose?

It's not like there is anything immoral about getting married legally, for Pete's sake! There is nothing there that contradicts God's law. And when that is not the case, then we are to obey the law of the land. This is not just a personal thing, but it shows those we influence that we are not looking for excuses to evade the law or deny it, but that to the best of our ability we will obey the law of the land as it stands.

It gives the appearance of immorality, and that in the name of Christ (??!!?) to be part of only a common law marriage and not a fully legal marriage. It may not be immoral and it may not be against the Bible, but it is most certainly NOT loving one's neighbor very much to set the kind of example that can be so badly misconstrued as an immoral relationship -- especially in light of today's rampant immorality.

 

I have given numerous scripture to support my stand. If I hadn't told you that I was married by covenant (not the same as common law marriage), you would have no clue. When I married my husband, I stood before an ordained pastor, in front of a congretation and before God, partook of vows, exchanged rings and signed a paper that contracts our marriage by covenant. There is absolutely nothing immoral about that. The only difference between my covenant and a marriage license is who can break it. State or the church.

Seeings how there are so many Bible scholars on this board, please show me any evidence of marriage ceremonies, vows taken, or rings exchanged (other than the marriage feast)!!

If all I have to do to be married in your eyes is to get a license, then does that mean I can skip the ceremony, vows, rings, etc?

What about a man and wife that gets a license and then later gets divorced and there was no Biblical reason for divorce. Are they still married in God's sight? What if they get back together, do they need to get a license again, even if in God's eyes there was never grounds for a divorce?

 

Walls, can you show in scripture that it says not to have a marriage license, or where it says you do not have to obey the govermental law made by the goverment God saud to obey. As of yet no one has addressed this. God says obey, we are to obey Him by obeying the law.
And I agree with Helen. We are to be a moral witness to others, to represent Christ. How does it look people living together and not married(legally). Sure the world does it, but christians are not supose to, we are to show them Christ, obeying the law is what Christians do. What kind of witness is it to disobey the law where it does not contradicts scripture, a legal marriage does not.
You ahve not shown one single scripture that say you can disobey God by disobeying the law. The jails and prisons are full of people who had a blatant disregard for the law, thought they could do what they wanted. Disobeying God by disobeying His command to obey the goverment(when not contradicting God) is sin. It is out right disobedience in preference for what the indivudual wants, not caring what God wants. If you study ancient Herbrew customs you'll see they had tos ign a legally binding oath to get married.
Shacking up never equals a marriage.

 

I certainly do not view myself as a Bible scholar, but I'll add my thoughts right here.

There is no engagement or wedding ceremonies of any detail in the Bible. The closest thing to a ritual or ceremony of engagement is found in Ruth and Ezekiel.

I don't totally understand the practice but it involved spreading one's garment over the woman to be engaged.

Ezekiel 16:8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine. (KJV)

Here, God becomes engaged to Israel by spreading His garment over her, taking her under His care. The swearing to her very well may represent the vows and then entering into the marriage covenant.

We have another example in the apochryphal book of Tobit. Let me be quick to say that I do not believe the apochryphal books to be inspired Scripture. They are nothing more than history books.

This is what it says:
"Then he called his daughter Sarah, and taking her by the hand he gave her to Tobias to be his wife, saying, 'Here she is; take her according to the law of Moses, and take her with you to your father.' And he blessed them. next, hecalled his wife Edna, and took a scroll and wrote out the contract; and they set their seals to it. Then they began to eat." Tobit 7:13ff. RSV

Here we see:
1. The father "gives away" his daughter.
2. They write out a formal marriage contract.
3. They validate it with their seals.
4. There is a public wedding feast.

I included this to say that other marriages may or may not have been handled in such manner.

 

In Genesis 24 we see a fulfillment of what God established in Genesis 2:24. You find no mention of a marriage license that supposedly gave it legal status. You see an agreement between the two families, the man and woman. No signing of any papers. Do you see that anywhere in this account? Would this be considered "shacking up" to you?

 

I will attempt to explain this in one other way.

If I am hunting on my own property, I am not required to have a license. However, I will be hunting without a license. Does this mean I am not hunting, because I have no license? Absolutely not. The law has made a provision for this.

If I am fishing on private property, I am not required to have a license. However, I will be fishing without a license. Does this mean I am not fishing? Absolutely not. The law has made a provision for this.

It is the same way with marriage by covenant. Just because I do not have a license, does that mean I am not married? Absolutely not. There are provisions in the law that allow for this and I am obligated as a blood-bought Christian to follow Biblical example. Covenant is mentioned 272 times in the Bible, I don't see license in there once.

I have nothing else to add at this point. I believe I have done the best to state my position and have attempted to do so with scripture. If after all this you can say that I am immoral, living in sin, shacking up or what not. Then this is my response...Joh 8:7 ...He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.