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EDEN OR AFTER THE SIN

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Alex, Jul 17, 2003.

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  1. Alex

    Alex New Member

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    Hello to all:

    It's been quite awhile since I have been on(my fault), and hope to get back with some debates and/or just simply learning more about God and His Gospel.

    The following may not have an answer and may well be one of God's many mysteries. So, here goes:

    I, and I suppose many others, have wondered about the orginal creation in respect to life forms that we deal with today. There are many of what you can call just plain pest with no apparent reason for their creation OR when they were created. There are many insects that have no aparrent need to be here. Fire ants is one of hundreds. Another in the south is "honeymoon bugs". My questions are as follows:

    1. Were all of what I deem as not having any function except to annoy or be hurtful, were they created prior to Adam and Eve and present in the Garden of Eden OR did they come AFTER the sins they committed?

    2. If before, then wouldn't they have been bad for them(prior to the sin) OR were they not agressive then as they are now?

    3. I have always believed that ALL life forms were created before Adam and Eve.......meaning these pesty creatures. I just can't come up with any logical need for any of these EXCEPT as part of our torment following the sins.

    So, I hope to get some ideas about this from y'all(southern term). It may seem to be a trivial matter BUT there has to be some reason. Maybe I overlooked something in the Bible that refers to this???? Maybe no one will know till we meet Jesus. Thanks in advanve and.....

    God Bless.........Alex
     
    #1 Alex, Jul 17, 2003
  2. Alex

    Alex New Member

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    I have been in Raleigh and my Lady friends(passed away last year), lived in Broadway. Now to your quick response. Since I do not believe in evolution, they were either docile if created as in Genesis OR God "added" them OR had them become the pesty critters that they are AFTER the sin. The same holds true for viruses and many other NOT needed living things. I guess there is no good answer as to when and why! The other curious thing is that most are not in that part of the world even today so as to have "migrated" to the USA. :confused:

    God Bless...........Alex
     
    #2 Alex, Jul 18, 2003
  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    "Honeymoon bugs" [​IMG] I know exactly what they are but we've always called them "Love bugs".

    Evolution is a well established fact within well defined limits, among Christians it's usually called "Micro-evolution". Off the top of my head, Micro-evolution is defined as the ability of an organism "type" to change within the genetic make-up present. The biblically undefined word, "kinds" found in Genesis allows for additional forms of animals within each kind, be that post Eden or post flood (or other :rolleyes: ).

    Supplanter is correct though. Every animal has it's nitch. The Love bug's nitch is on the headlights of cars traveling on the interstate.

    Rob
     
    #3 Deacon, Jul 18, 2003
  4. Sola-Scriptura

    Sola-Scriptura New Member

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    Deacon,
    You're right. Noah's ark did not have all types of dogs, cats, chicken's, etc. etc. Many of these breeds are bred by men and mixed and matched. Some are naturally occuring (under the providence of God, of course). The same would apply to many other species. A lot of our variations within those species came after the Ark, but a cat is always a cat, a dog always a dog etc. Not evolution but variation "within" a species.

    God's plan was from all eternity and therefore the creatures He created were created with all of history in mind. The predators were not predators before the Fall, but were created for His purposes in a cursed earth and became partakers of the "curse" of the earth along with us.
     
    #4 Sola-Scriptura, Jul 18, 2003
  5. Alex

    Alex New Member

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    Thanks, Deacon, BUT I disagree on some or many of these pesy critters as well as some animals. The question still remains as to WHY they were created. I only named a few out of thousands that even scientist haven't the foggyist idea as to what good they are. In fact, many of them have become extinct with no apparent need that showed up AFTER they were no more. Why would they be needed in the first place, in the Garden of Eden? To most, Eden wS AS CLOSE TO A Heavenly place that was ever on earth.

    In Micro-evolution, that is animals as well as insects that evolve within their own species. In other words, there are many different dogs, but they are still dogs. The dog actually came from a Wolf which in reverse you could call a dog!

    The non-Christian all see this as millions of years of evolution which then it would makes some sense. But from a Bibical standpoint, it doesn't.

    So, I guess we are back to square one without any Christian reasoning. More thoughts, I hope.

    God Bless...........Alex
     
    #5 Alex, Jul 18, 2003
  6. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    The May-fly is a pesky bug too, but it sure makes the trout jump.

    Perhaps the main function of some critters is to be the food of others???

    Another point, Eden was the "perfect" enviornment for Adam and Eve, perhaps these bothersome critters were not in Eden but were present outside of Eden.

    Rob
     
    #6 Deacon, Jul 18, 2003
  7. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Good point! They were tossed out of the garden & refused re-admittance. :mad:

    Never thought of this point before; interesting speculation!? :confused: [​IMG]
     
    #7 just-want-peace, Jul 18, 2003
  8. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    There has been a lot of variation in insects. The particular insects we find so 'buggy' may not have been around in this particular form before sin, or even before the Flood.

    The other possibility is that they had entirely different functions before. Same equipment, but it was used differently. I don't want to speculate, because that is all it would be, but I think both possibilities should be considered before we say, with Ogden Nash

    "God, in His wisdom, made the fly
    And then forgot to tell us why."

    [​IMG]
     
    #8 Helen, Jul 18, 2003
  9. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    As to whether it was before the curse or after the curse, this should answer that.

    Ex 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day

    All sorts of animals got dangerous (lions and tigers and bears, oh, my). People got meaner. Smaller animals, and insects got meaner, and annoying, too.

    Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

    The curse had far reaching effects on all of creation. God did not give us all of the details for each creature but they are easily observable.
    (I still think Noah should have smacked at least one of the chiggers. :eek: [​IMG] )
     
    #9 Artimaeus, Jul 19, 2003
  10. Alex

    Alex New Member

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    Thanks to all for the very good comments. However, when we say that ALL, which is what the scriptures say, we border on Predestination(which I do not believe in. God knows all and the strange part is that He knew, in advance of creating a PERFECT man, that he would fall to sin and thus we now have all the "pesty" critters and insects to deal with. I guess we will never know WHY till we meet Jesus. Remember, on each day of creation, God said ALL is good so the critters that we are discussing seems to have been at one point, GOOD. This would mean even IN the Garden of Eden. So, evidently, due to their sins, they became as we see them now. This topic isn't really important. I just wanted to see how others felt about it. THE MANY MYSTERIES OF GOD AND HIS CREATION. [​IMG] ;)

    God Bless............Alex
     
    #10 Alex, Jul 23, 2003
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