Romans 9:17-24

Hello everyone,

I hardly ever post in this forum, but I often read the posts of others, because I think this is a really interesting subject. However, I haven't seen a discussion on this passage, and wondered what you all thought it meant, please? I personally think it does more for the Calvinism argument than any other passage (I'm not saying I believe Calvinism), so would be particularly interested to hear non-Calvinist's opinions on it.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

In particular,

1. What is meant by "hardening" hearts? Is only Pharoh in view here or others? If others, who are they?

2. Does God try to impose his will on everyone? WHO has resisted God's will?

3. Who are the "vessels" pictures of - all mankind, or some smaller group (e.g. Jews)?

4. What does it mean to make some vessels to "honour" - is this salvation, or something else?

5. What about "dishonour"?

6. What is the "same lump" - Adam and Eve, Abraham, or someone else?

7. Are the "vessels of wrath fitted to destruction" the SAME vessels as the vessels made "unto dishonour"? Why/why not?

8. WHY does God need to endure "with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction" in order to make known the riches of his glory on the "vessels of mercy"?

9. Are the "vessels of mercy" all those who are told the gospel, or just those who believe it, or some other group? (verse 24)

10. Were the "vessels of mercy" prepared unto glory as individuals, or as a group (i.e. those who are not yet part of the group are not yet prepared unto glory)?

11. WHEN were they prepared unto glory?

Thanks for your help,

Bartholomew

 

Thanks Bro. Dallas,

I know I asked a lot of questions, but to be honest, I'd rather just have people's simple thoughts as to what the answers are, rather than explanations of why you think that (though of course they'd be nice, too!) Sometimes, I find I understand a passage wrong because I never thought it COULD mean what it does!

Thanks again,

Bartholomew