Pagan Names and Origins

Walls,

Actually I never said Church brider, here were my exact words:

"Having said that Baptist Briders(which you may or may not be one - I thought you were) build a whole theological system around their theories of church history."

Maybe you did not catch that, maybe you did and you are saying the Baptist Church is the only true church so you are a "church brider".

Say what you mean then and don't change my words.

As far as the fact that the KJV does not have the word 'hades' - thats irrelavent.

Just because you think the 7th edition of the 9th translation of the Greek New Testament in the English language is the only thing you need to study does not make it any less true that the Apostles and Christ used the word Hades in correlation to the hebrew sheol. And Hades origin in the Greek language refered to the mythological god of the dead.

We can still learn a great deal from understanding the Greek language.

Romans 10:2(NIV)
"For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge."


Walls, you are "zealous for God", but your zeal "is not based on knowledge".

It is interesting to me the importance that the Apostle Paul placed on good language skills and appreciation for languages and presenting things clearly. You seem to think he was wrong.
1 Corinthians 14:8-11(NIV)
"8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me."

Paul tells us that their we should clearly understand the Word of God. Whether we are singing it church, or preaching it, or studying it.

He says we should speak with "intelligible words" - words which properly convey the meaning we want them to have.

He acknowledges the fact that there are all kinds of languages in the world and they hall have meaning. If we do not "grasp the meaning" of it then it is useless to us. If we somewhat grasp the meaning, then it more useful.

That is why we do not need to dismiss the importance of understanding the Greek language in which God inspired the New Testament to be written in. We can learn much just from the language he chose.

This does not mean we all have to be Greek scholars, but we should not dismiss the study of the original languages of the scriptures as unimportant.

Having said all that, I think your position that we should not use names and words with Pagan origins falls flat on it face when compared with the example of scripture - the Apostles chose a greek word(hades) with pagan origins to convey a Christian teaching. Case closed.

Do not underscore education for Christians, God used Paul(the most educated Apostle) to write more of the New Testament than any other Apostle. God showed that he could use uneducated fisherman as well as educated men like Paul. And while Peter did not have the education Paul did - he still showed great respect for Paul's writings as we see in 2 Peter 3:

2 Peter 3:15-16(NIV)
"15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Now you have some choices as to how you handle this post:

You can come out swinging at me, and try and change the subject from pagan names to a KJV only discussion. This will show everyone on this board that you cannot answer the fact that the Apostles used a pagan word to convey Christian teachings.

Or you can stay on subject, and try and address where you think it was ok for them to use pagan words and not for us.

The choice is yours.

IFBReformer

 

Dear Ifb, funny how you would call Bible and history study petty. This is what I do in my spare time. I am not a soccer mom, scrapbooker, or what not. I am a wife and a mother who stays at home and when I have extra time, I study things out. If you will check, the majority of my posts they are of an inquisitve nature. Sorry if you think the small things are petty. What would you suggest I spend my time on then, watching tv perhaps? </font>[/QUOTE]I never called "Bible and history study petty". Once again you have put words in my mouth. Here was what I said:

"Don't get me wrong, I love church history. There is a place for that, but when a Pastor stands up at a pulpit ranting each week about Baptist History and what names people have rather than preaching the Gospel and how to live the Christian life he has lost his focus."

I think it is fine way to spend some free time. But when we make our theories about church history into doctrinal systems where by we seperate from other churches who do not hold to our view of church history - it becomes wrong.

these are the "endless geneologies" the bible speaks of.

IFBReformer

 

Do you feel that it is appropriate to use the Gregorian calendar at all, even if you change it to read 1st month, 2nd month, first day second day? By using Pope Gregory XIII's calendar as the basis of your renamed calendar, are you not aligning yourself with Roman Catholicism? And besides, the Gregorian calendar is but a minor revision of the old, pagan, Roman Julian calendar.

To be pleasing to God, shouldn't you be using the Jewish calendar?

 

Walls,

Sorry I was not meaning to come across that way. I just thought I sensed a little Baptist Brideism in there - if you don't know what that is(and you don't) then you have nothing to worry about. It seems like your Pastor is good and balanced on this topic.

Having said all that - you still have not answered the 'hades' question? If the Apostles in writing the very word of God could use 'hades' to correlate to 'sheol' of the Old Testament how is it wrong for us to use pagan words if we are not using them in direct respect to those false Gods?

IFBReformer

 

Thanks Mark Armstring, I tried to find a place to trace surnames. Mine was on the top 10 in the US list. Thanks for fixing my llink, don't know what I did wrong.
My maiden name means = prosperous guardian, and is Saxon.
It didn't tell me the meaning is my married name, just that it is English/Welsh.

 

I'm too old to start using a system that isn't used by anyone else in my realm of existance.

But here's a link to a site that will figure out the Jewish calendar in case anyone else wants to.
Hebrew Calendar

 

Here's an irony: I know someone whose daughter recently had a child out of wedlock (no intent to get married, either). They named the baby, "Christian." Go figure.

I hope he will be one someday. But he'll probably never go to Sunday School to learn about Jesus unless a miracle happens.

 

Well if anyone can find a site that lists Tavegia, point me to it! We've been told it used to be Taveggia and also Travegia but even those don't show up.

So, I'm the Virgin Goddess of Childbirth and with God as my Oath a Tavegia by marriage.

 

Boy Diane your really mixed up.
Heres a fun thing. Go to those phone number look ups and do a nationwide search for your last name adn see if there are more of them.

 

What you are asking is kind of..um..weird. The Bible refers to sheol using the greek "hades" because it is in direct reference to something. The words used for days and months were given probably to honor those men and gods. If we choose to use them, we in a sense are also giving them honor, though in a not so direct way. Because time has lapsed, people become de-sensitized to what was used for different reasons. This desensitization is then given over to a reasoning that looks right in our eyes, while all along, it had different meaning.

 

I wonder if it was topics such as this that got the Amish to seperate so entirely from civilization?

 

Not sure what you mean?

 

I'm too old to start using a system that isn't used by anyone else in my realm of existance.</font>[/QUOTE]Which is pretty much the point I was making. We use the Gregorian calendar and the traditional names of months and days to be able to communicate with others in our society. Stripping out the names of months and days leads to unnecessary confusion.

Reverting to the Jewish calendar is the natural extension of what Walls asks us to do to be "pleasing to God," or else "the name of this board should be changed to something more pagan."

 

Walls, what do you think of us christians who use the gregorian calendar? Is your belief that we are obedient? Or not? I'm just trying to get a handle on that, becasue in the past we've had people say if we didn't what they do we are disobedient, and thats the nicest thing they said.

 

I don't see where I have asked anyone to do anything, I just asked a question about what pleases God. That lies within each of us to determine what God would have each and every individual to do. And then it rests on your shoulders and not anyone elses. </font>[/QUOTE]Walls,

Yes you asked some questions, and then you gave your own answer to the question:

"I think so, otherwise the name of this board should be changed to something more pagan, don't you think?"

So you do think it is names are very important to God. You do believe that you should not used the traditional cultural names we have for months and many other things like that according to your posts.

I answered your question with what I believe based on the example of the writing of the Scriptures themselves.

The Scriptures use of pagan greek names to correlate to Christian teachings very clearly
shows us that it is acceptable to use names
that have pagan origins if we are doing it in
a way that does not seek to honor that pagan deity.

The second thing I did is what upset you - I not only gave my answer, I attacked yours. But I was not attacking you personally(I try to be very careful on that) I was attacking your belief.

If our beliefs are not based on whims or mans opinion but on the examples and commands of Scripture than we have nothing to fear. In fact I have a website where I write various articles on subjects, I always post excerpts here knowing there will be some here who will vehemently attack my position.

It is good, because it shows me any holes in my position and ultimately causes me to test my positions on issues and make sure they are founded on the examples and commands of Scripture and not my own whims and feelings.

I hope you will understand the fact that I was not trying to attack you personally, only your position on this issue.

IFBReformer

 

Walls asked Is it pleasing to God to use pagan names, etc....

I'm sorry to have to keep repeating one verse over and over but it just fits so well. I don't think God is concerned about such things. If He were, why would He have provided this verse releasing us from legalism concerning festivals, moons, sabbaths (calendar type items)? Is it NOT sinful to return to legalism? Does it NOT take power from the cross?

Colossians 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God. 20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations-- 21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," 22 which all concern things which perish with the using--according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

IF you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, WHY, as though living in the world, do you SUBJECT YOURSELF to regulations--
Diane

 

How much everyday things have pagan names, nike is a false god, bali and amanana(appliances) are cults names who grew into corporations. How many everyday words have pagan origins. Unless you are worshipping the false god it is named for I don't think you have to worry about anything, you haven't joined yourslef with anything.