If I believe in God, am I saved?

Well, I guess that means all the Pharisess living during Christ's personal ministry are going to hell. What about Nicodemus?

 

No. Let me give you an example of an imperfect understanding of salvation that does not prevent someone from getting saved: limited atonement or unlimited atonement, depending on your viewpoint.

 

Don't know about *all* but what else do you make out of Matthew 5:20?

I believe Nicodemus ended up trusting Christ (cf., John 7:45-50).

 

But that example is about who salvation is offered to, not about how an individual attains that salvation.

 

Oh, you're talking about an imperfect understanding about how to *attain* salvation. Is that right?

In that case, we're really getting back to the content and object of saving faith. For example, saving faith requires the knowledge of certain doctrine -- the content of the gospel ('how that Christ died for my sins according to the scriptures, etc'). If you are off on the content and object of faith, then your faith is not saving faith. That's not adding to faith that is exercising the right kind of faith.

 

Yes, that's what prompted your initial disagreement with me, was it not?

As I understand it, Catholics are solid on "how that Christ died for my sins according to the scriptures, etc", and are not off on the content and object of faith. So back to the earlier point, if someone has faith in Christ, that he died for their sins, they're repentant of their sins, and they believe he rose again, does lack of perfect doctrine in othe areas negate God's grace in respect to their salvation?

 

Yes but I thought the scope broadened during our conversation. My mistake. Sometimes it's hard to communicate properly on these forums. I'm glad we're focused back on the main issue.

I believe they [based on official Catholic doctrine] are off on the content and object of faith because they do not believe in justification by faith alone -- hence my original comment. The Catholic view of justification is deficient and you cannot be saved if you are trusting in baptism and sacramental grace in addition to Christ's work on the cross. It is another gospel.

Now, an individual who attends a Catholic church may, of course, be saved BUT it would be in spite of and in opposition to Catholic doctrine.


Andy

 

Yes, they do not believe in justification by faith alone, primarily because they believe James 2, taking it at face value. Now, I don't want to debate who is write and who is wrong about James 2, but suppose for the sake of argument that their view of James 2 is correct - would *your* mistake about justification negate your salvation?

Perhaps you should make that post in the other forum that allows Catholics to respond, because I think you don't quite understand what Catholics believe about sacraments, etc.

Brian

 

From the Council of Trent:

It may be that lay Catholics don't understand everything about their church and its doctrine but offical Catholic dogma teaches a false gospel.

It does nobody any good to give them a false hope if their faith is not in Christ and Christ alone.

Andy

 

Thanks Andy, I'll be asking my Catholic contacts about those quotes.

However, I still don't see that if salvation is by faith in Christ, and they have faith in Christ, how doing other things *because* of their faith in Christ (i.e. sacraments don't "stand alone" and are not done for their own sake, but are done *because* of faith in Christ) that nullifies God's grace.

 

Read in Gods word and you will know that answer. Read romans

 

The demons believe and shudder.