Free Will Questions

Excuse me? Do you misinterpret so basic a scripture as Genesis 3:14,15?

I clearly do see "The Fall", but I see it for what it is, not what you make it to be! I see man for the created being God made him, not what you make him out to be. I see Jesus for who and what he is, not for what you make him out to be. I see sin for what it is, not what you make it out to be! I see Salvation for who it is intended for, and for what it is, not for what you make it out to be. I see redemption for what it does, not for what you make it out to be!

I see that we are both saved, but we are at opposites regarding Holy Scriptures. You arguments have not persuaded me and mine have not persuaded you, and ever it shall remain. BUT, one day we will both see how wrong we both are. Praise be to Jesus!

 

Romans 10:15 gives a way of how people receive God's truth. In Romans 2, Paul writes that some who have never officially heard God's truth still show that they have God's truth written in their hearts.

 

You say,
God CANNOT do evil.... sounds like CONTROL to me.
Or are you saing that it is not God's NATURE not to do evil?

gfg

 

Hardsheller,

I'm shocked! You basically have said that someone like Abraham did not the opportunity to have a relationship with God like we do today! Using him as an example, Heb. 11 says Abraham was "looking for a city". Does Genesis say anything, in detail, about New Jerusalem? Perhaps not, but Abraham was looking for a "city who's builder and maker is God". If that's not New Jerusalem, I don't know what it is. The point is, what kind of relationship did Abraham have with God that is any different than what is offered today? It is my firm belief that the one who "walked in the garden" with Adam was Christ, the image of the invisible God.

If you're convinced of orthodoxy simply because it is orthodoxy, that is your perogative and I respect your choice. However, I would ask this, was Christ teaching orthodoxy? Was Abraham orthodox in his time? Simply because the masses accept the teachings of a "brilliant theologian" doesn't suggest truth is being followed. It simply means the masses like what they hear. May I also remind us that the false prophets of Isreal and Judah spoke things that were soothing to the hearers. The true prophets of God spoke those things that were hard to hear.

Rethinking our theology is not necessarily a comfortable thing.

 

Hi Hardsheller;
Free will is choice not some magical power.The reason Calvinist reject the Idea of free will is because there doctrine is a dictated doctrine.I have no doubt that if Calvinism survives that there will arise another murder like Calvin who will no doubt try and force everyone in the world to be Calvinist. He Calvin and Augustine was totally against the idea of choice if man has a choice in anything such as religion why He will be a free agent and won't be controlled by us...Calvin the Pope of Geneva murdered hundreds of people who would not believe as He "Calvin" dictated.Calvin a man after power not the souls of men.He openly murdered Michael Servetus for writing a book that was not written under his jurisdiction.Servetus the Man who discovered the pulmonary circulation of the blood.A man who Calvin Hated because the man believed in free will.

I wonder in a few hundred years will people flock to the writings of a mad man named Charles Manson a man who is no different than John Calvin...

This is documented fact in history and this happened after Calvin wrote the institutes of Christianity and became the religous leader of Geneva Switzerland...
Romanbear

 

Hardsheller,

I think I know what you're saying. It just sounds like you're suggesting OT saints did not understand the concpet of the Messiah which, IMO, is far from the truth of the scriptures. Your statment, "They were saved through Christ but did not have a personal relationship that is possible for NT Christians in time", threw me. In my mind, God does not change, thus, the way God establishs a relationship wiht His creatures (human beings) does not change (John 1:1-3). But I'll digress from this subject...

Who is Clark Pinnock?

Going back to nature, perhaps another way to disucss it is to ask "what do you believe constitues the nature of Adam"? IMO "Choice is the essence of Adam's nature". Notice I don't use the term "free will". I do this purposely because I don't intend to canote the same things Arminians do by it.

To reiterate, I suggest that whatever someone believes about Adam's nature is dependant upon what they believe about God.

 

Yelsew,

You speak as if truth cannot be known beyond any doubt. Is this scriptural?

What do you consider sin to be? You make it out to be something not so bad.

Just wondering.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Hi Hard sheller;
Truth hurts and both Manson and Calvin are murders both with desires to control other people. Calvin deliberately murdered after his protest of the Catholic doctrine. He did it to control the people of Geneva. Read the history of it before you judge my character for telling the truth. Calvinism it's very name is a lie. It's not Calvinism it's Catholicism. It was written by the man who created the Catholic Doctrine and is the main part of Cathlocism. It was written by Augustine in order to control the masses. The Romans found it difficult to over come Christianity so they decided to infiltrate it and destroy it from with in and take it for there own tool to control men. The fact that people believe in Calvinism is proof of the prophecy that men would rather believe a lie than the truth.I encorage you to stop analizing scripture to make it say what you believe and start believing it as it is written.How can you put your faith in something that was created by man.Take his name on yourself with pride and arrogance denying truth.Judging others as ignorant when you are blinded by your Catholic doctrine. Calvinist slander Dave Hunt as if he was the antichrist him self. When he never had the desires of your evil mentor John Calvin.Murdering all who would not accept his doctrine as truth in Geneva.You won't accept truth because you are Blind to it.
Romanbear

 

Hi Hardsheller;
I don't understand why you would think of me as a unloving Christian. I love you enough to want to inform you of the truth. Please don't tell me what I have said about Calvin isn't true. The history of Switzerland proves it. The history of the reformation proves it. It's documented truth. It would indeed be hateful of me not to tell you the truth. Someone told you the truth of the Gospel about Jesus Christ how he died for our sins and they told you all this because they were fulfilling the Comandments of Christ especially to love others as they loved them selves. It was also offensive. Truth is like that.If my statements are wrong prove me wrong...
Romanbear

 

Thanks for making me look up yet another person I never heard of! I was looking for a way to get out of doing some real work... Here's an interesting interview with Pinnock and Michael Horton I found.

http://www.modernreformation.org/mr93/janfeb/mr9301interviewpinnock.html

 

Sin is not so bad that man cannot determine to, and repent, by his own free will, from doing it!

Sin is something that man can stop doing! Or we would not be commanded to repent from doing. A command is something that we humans must do under our own God given power. He made us that way!

That does not mean that man can change from having a sin nature under his own will, but it does mean that man can stop sinning. A thief can stop stealing, a fraud can stop defrauding, a whore can stop whoring, a homosexual can stop homosexualizing.

Thus is it that man is not totally Depraved. The totally depraved will not, of their own accord repent, and yes there are some who are totally depraved, but not the sum total of all mankind, as Calvinism would have us believe. If that were the case, God would have torched us long before now as he flooded during Noah's time

 

So, Calvinism makes elitist distinctions??

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

I used to think we could "not sin" on our own steam. I hope God is merciful when He exposes this error to you.

 

http://www.modernreformation.org/mr93/janfeb/mr9301interviewpinnock.html

Thanks for the site.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas