Should Pastors Know what YOU Give?

If a church teaches people to live by faith, then the church itself must set the example, and live by faith.

Although if churches practiced the biblical model of running a church over the western capatilist model. It would not be a problem in the first place.

 

James --

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the pastor
being paid. It IS in the Bible, and it is only right
for a man of our God, who gives so much time to
a congregation that it would be impossible to
hold an outside job, to be paid in order to con-
tinue to serve as we expect him to.

I am, at this very time, preparing to tell my
pastor, with a smile and in a gentle voice, that he'is over-worked and needs to delegate, and I would
be willing to help out if he will allow me. Because
I have refused to go to the members' meetings, I
have no idea what he is being paid or even if the
second pastor is being paid at all, but I know this:
whatever he is being paid, it cannot be enough.

When a pastor lives and breathes the care and
keeping of a congregation, money must come
from some place, to support him and his family
for all they give. They charge us nothing for the
four classes taught every week, but each must
have hours of preparation. There are several
services weekly, and all require much prepara-
tion, some requiring hours of study.

A pastor has degrees: they were certainly not
given for free. I know my pastors could be many
other places, doing things that could make real
money, but they chose to pastor. I am thankful
for them and do not begrudge a single cent they
need to stay warm and fed.

May our God bless them and all pastors, and may
they be fully supported by their congregations, in
love, in finances, and in every other way so that
they may be free to serve.

[ January 11, 2003, 03:59 AM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]

 

Abiyah, If you ever move to Wesson--you move your church membership to my church--OK????!!!

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

8o) I just looked at a map of Mississippi. I used
to live just north of you, in Jackson mainly, but I
lived for a short time in Brandon. It is not likely
I will ever see the state again, but I will keep that in
mind! 8o)

 

ITA with you! Our "Man of God" takes care of us and we should take care of him.

Someone stated in an earlier post that we are not boung by tithing since it was in the Old Testament. I believe that to be a wrong statement. Jesus did not come to do away with the Law; He came to fulfill it. I can do a lot more with the 90% I have left than I could ever do with the whole 100% percent. You cannot outgive God; neither should you rob him.
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings... Malachi 3:8

 

Only if you remove 1 Cor 9 and 1 Tim 5 from the Scriptures. This point is so clear in Scripture that it is remarkable that statements like this are still being made. God plainly said that those who preach the gospel are to live of the gospel. To refuse to pay a pastor is to refuse to honor the preacher of God's word in the manner in which Scripture says he should be honored.

Pay the pastor like Scripture says to do. That allows him to focus his time and efforts solely on the ministry of the Word of God and prayer.

 

Since Caesar has said this money doesn't belong to him, when you pay taxes on the amount that you give to the church, you are actually giving Caesar something that is not due him. Why not do this: Take the amount of the difference between the tax before offering and the tax after offering and give that amount to the church.

As for knowing, I do not know what people give and that is intentional. I tell my people, I only know what one person gives ... me. I do not want the temptation to look at people through financial eyes. To me, they all give the same.

 

I think everyone has just discovered a big difference between the Primitive Baptists and other Baptists.

I misspoke when I said we don't pay Preachers. We do. BUT, we do not and never will pay a salary. We pay them for the expenses incurred for the travel to and from the church, and so forth.

Also, our Elders do not have degrees, at least theological ones. We do not believe in seminary. Our Elders are called and taught by God, not by man.

With regards to the treasurer not being a biblical position, I would agree, IF the treasurer was paid. Our treasurer is not. Neither is the clerk/secretary, who happens to be me.

I would hate to think that a preacher might take a Pastoring position based upon the amount of money he will be making. Yes, I realize that a true man of God would not do this, but it is a predicament that the preacher should not be subjected to. He should not have to face which church he should Pastor based upon the salary they are offering. He should go wherever God guides him.

And finally, we are not required to tithe. You said Christ came to fulfill, not do away with the law; I agree. Then, why don't we have temples, why do we eat pork, why don't we take more than one wife?

The answer is because we are taught in the New Testament the things we are supposed to do. If it does not conflict with the Old Testament, then we should follow the Old Testament, but tithings do conflict with the New Testament.

If you can't see the scripture reference in the post on page 1, then I will post it here in a while.

God Bless. Bro. James

 

Au contraire! A treasurer is simply doing the work of a deacon.

 

So what does he live on??? Paul said that those who preach the gospel are to live of the gospel, and uses illustrations to support that very fact. Are you telling us that your are disregarding this command of Scripture?

Are you here telling us that Paul's method in 2 Tim 2:2-4 is wrong? Paul commanded that men learn from other men. That is what seminary is ... men who have learned passing on to faithful men who in turn will teach others also. This is a clear command of Scripture that we should follow, not disregard. It sounds very pious to say that "our elders are called and taught by God" but in reality, I think that is not true. Your elders probably grew up in your church and were taught by the elders that came before them, not "by God." I believe God does teach through godly men. Seminaries perform a much needed and too often overlooked role.

It seems that a great number of your practices are indeed in Scripture but instead are in contradiction to Scripture. How do you explain your lack of following what seems to be clear passages?

 

I know I'm not a moderator in this forum, but I believe the subject is whether pastors should know how much each family of their congregation gives financially to the church - not whether the pastor should be paid. Did I misread it?


I've started a topic on "Should pastors have salaries?" for more detailed discussion of that issue.

 

No way Blackbird, she is ours!!! We arent too far from Wesson either. (Lumberton) Abiyah, people like you are such a blessing. Thank you.
TaterTot

 

I noticed that someone quoted Malachi 3:8

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Yet, when we hear this Scripture quoted it is always taken out of context concerning to whom it was originally given...

Malachi 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

Historically this condemnation was against the Levitical priesthood who, apparently, were taking the tithes brought to the Storehouse and keeping it for themselves.

Not that Christians should be against tithing as such. They should be against tithing as a requirement of God for the NT believer.

My opinion:
Whatever we give, it should be secret (left hand vs right hand). It should be as an act of faith (for without faith it is impossible to please God). It shouldn't make you feel bad (cheerful giver).

Besides all that, whether we give 1, 10, 50 or 100 percent, we don't actually own anything anyway...

Job 1:21 ...Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

Someone has said, we can't take it with us but we can send it on ahead.

HankD

 

8oD ! to Tater Tot

And "I'm sorry!" to Dr. Bob.

 

Why not?

I don't see any problem with the pastor knowing how much we give.

The money goes through so many hands in our church that many people know how much we give.

Just curious, if you don't have a record of how much you give, such as you only give cash, how do you get credit on your income taxes for your contributions?

 

Be it right or wrong we do not claim our "Tithe" on our Income Taxes, but a lot of people do.
Our Pastor does not count the weekly offerings the Deacons do and give it to the Treasurer. So one would have to go out of their way for him to see specifically what one gives. That does not seem right.
Love in Christ, Angie

 

Why not claim it? It is a legal deduction and if one receives a refund or saves money this way, then he can give more to the church.

Opps, this is off the subject, sorry.

 

Dr. Bob,

"I WANT to know every aspect of the spiritual condition of my people" that I think it is my business to know, not something that Jesus has indicated is best left as a private matter between my people and Himself. I have given a Scriptural argument (as well as a couple of other considerations) in my last post. If you think these are off base, perhaps you could explain why.

Pastork