Can mankind understand the gospel message?

A TOTALLY INCORRECT concept! This shows the author does not understand the purpose of substitutionary sacrifice.
The purpose of Subsitutionary Sacrifice was never salvation of the one offering the sacrifice, but rather atonement for the sins of the one offering the sacrifice, so that God would look favorably upon the sinner. No where in scripture has a blood sacrifice ever saved anyone! Jesus sacrifice of himself did not, an cannot save a single person!

Man's works, no matter how spectacular will not, nor cannot save him.

That leaves FAITH (belief in Jesus) alone as the means of Salvation of man. "There is no other name under heaven whereby ye must be saved".

 

Yelsew, you are seriously and dangerously wrong in that statement.

Matthew 26:28(NASB)
28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

Acts 20:28(NASB)
28 “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Romans 5:9(NASB)
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Ephesians 1:7(NASB)
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:19(NASB)
19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

Hebrews 9:14(NASB)
14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 10:19(NASB)
19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 13:12(NASB)
12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

1 Peter 1:18-19(NASB)
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers,
19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

1 John 1:7(NASB)
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5(NASB)
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—

Revelation 5:9(NASB)
9 And they *sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

May God have mercy on us all.

 

The Blood of Jesus has not converted one person from sinner to saint! Nor has the Blood of Jesus saved one person from Hell.

No one even believes in the blood of Jesus until they first believe in Jesus himself and who and what Jesus is.

Show me in scripture where it is the blood of Jesus that saves, or that the death of Jesus is what saves.

The scriptures you posted, all out of context, do not say the atonement saves, or gives anyone eternal life. Jesus says it is believing in Him that saves.

 

Yes, the verses I presented do teach that the precious blood of Jesus saves. You are spiritually blind, Yelsew. That should be evident to everyone who reads this forum now, including the Arminians.

I guess you don't sing -

"What can wash away my sin,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus"

"For my pardon this I see,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus"

"O precious is the flow,
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus."

And I guess you don't sing -

"Are you washed in the blood,
In the soul-cleansing blood of the Lamb?
Are your garments spotless,
Are they white as snow?
Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?"

May God have mercy on us all.

 

***Double post***

 

These are not salvation words, they are forgiveness words dealing with atonement and not dealing with Salvation.

These are also not salvation words. They, too, deal with atonement of sins and not Salvation. Atonement does not equal Salvation

Please cease your false accusations!

 

Yelsew,

You are obviously not hearing what I or anyone else is saying.

I'm assuming from your name that you have at least some respect for John Wesley.

This is my final appeal to you on this thread, I'm not going to waste any more time, or give you any more excuses to make the kind of remarks you are making.


EPHESIANS 2:1

And you hath He quickened who were dead in tresspasses and sins;


I have taken the following quote from John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible.

CLICK HERE FOR LINK

I suggest you also check out Verse 13, and Wesley's explanation, it might stop you going any further down the road you are on at the moment.

It is kind of ironic that Wesley was Arminian don't you think.

In Christ,

Enda

[ April 27, 2003, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: enda ]

 

And what road do you see me traveling down? I don't feel like I am 'traveling down', It is with much labor and burden that I feel as though I am traveling up and not down.

Respect for Wesley? As much as for any other man!

 

Right, just ignore him too then. I suuggest you change your name.

 

Bro. Bill, Thank you for understanding most of what I've been trying to say. There are a few points however that need further clarification.
1) Atonement is not necessary for God to save man in any sense other than the debt for man's sin is paid by Jesus' atoning sacrifice. By Jesus paying the debt for our sins, there is nothing we can do for ourselves, he has done it all.

Believe it or Not! Meaning that man has an obligation to believe in Jesus and the final work of God for our salvation, or not! Most do not grasp the simplicity of God's salvation of man. Yes, He truly did everything and there is nothing we can do. Believe it or Not! Therefore, by believing it, thus believing in Jesus, God counts our faith as Righteousness just as he did Abraham's faith to him. If one has faith in Jesus, but does not behave in accordance with that faith, his faith is the same as dead faith. Whereas, if one behaves in accordance with one's faith in Jesus, his works will be the works of righteousness that bring Glory unto the very name of Jesus and to God the Father.

You are correct, let me amplify a little.

One cannot enter heaven under the burden of sin and expect to pass muster at the judgment. Therefore Jesus' atonement pays the debt for our sin so that we do not face the Judgment Throne of God with that debt on our head. That leaves God's Judgment of us based solely on our belief in Jesus. "For by faith are ye saved...." Now then, ALL mankind will be Judged by God, therefore the Atonement is for the sins of ALL mankind so that God's Justice is fairly applied to all based on the faith or lack of faith one has in Jesus.

That is not to say that our deeds are not Judged, for truly they are, but Salvation is by faith alone, and not by deeds good or bad that we have done.

That lack of belief led to behavior that was not acceptable in the eyes of God. The same thing applies to us. The atonement of Christ's blood is a once for ALL atonement that pays for our sins. We as believers are no longer compelled by sin, and our behavior should absolutely reflect our belief. If it does not, then our belief is brought into question by those with whom we associate. If our behavior is Christ-like, then there is no doubt about what we believe, and in whom we believe. In the OT as in the NT God looketh on the heart for our sacrifice, and not the altar.

Close, but let me stress that if Atonement was all that existed, it could not save even one. God said that blood sacrifice is not what pleases Him, but rather a believing heart. If Faith was all that existed it could and does save whosoever believeth. Together, Atonement coupled to faith is God's perfect plan because there are no works that man can do that he could boast about. Atonement without faith is strictly the payment for sin, and it applies to ALL mankind.

No, it is as Jesus said in John 3:18

"No one who believes in him will be judged;
but whoever does not believe is judged already,
because that person does not believe
in the Name of God's only Son."

They will suffer for the sin of unbelief only. I believe that unbelief is equal to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

I'm not sure how you are applying this scripture. Are you saying that what I've said is heresy, or that some other point of view is the heresy?

 

What would you have me do regarding the long dead Wesley?
Did he die to save me?
Did he rise again so that I might have life?
Is He sitting at the right hand of the Father?
Is there some edict that I must bow to him and pay homage as the Muslims do Muhammad?

What is it you would have me do? I usually behave on this BBS in a civil manner so long as others are civil to me.

Have I blasphemed the Holy Spirit?
Have I blasphemed the Holy Father God?
Have I been disrespectful to those in Authority over me?

What is it you want me to do that I am not doing?