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Another Try

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Sularis, Jun 26, 2003.

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  1. Sularis

    Sularis Member

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    As I attended a Baptist convention - I came across beliefs and people that made my skin crawl

    I really want people to understand what I believe, so once more into the breach, once more for the Calvinistic dead...!

    Adam perfect - only person to ever have uninfluenced will

    When Adam fell - we retained the ability to choose, but we became biased in such a fashion, that it would take a miracle for us to choose God.

    We did not gain sin - ie thus are not automatically damned - BUT we gained the bias to sin so that at the first opportunity of recognition of bad we will tend to do it - Thus earning us our own personal condemnation

    Thus we have an 'age of innocence' for a very short period of time, until the child becomes cognizant

    But I MUST EMPHASIZE that we are still marred by Adam, and as such will inevitably sin, damning ourselves, before potty training even comes, there may be those mentally deficient enough not to know evil and as such will maintain their 'innocence' for a while longer, but I aint met someone who doesnt understand bad and good

    Now in order for us to be saved, we must choose Christ - this will not and CANNOT happen UNLESS the Holy Spirit calls us. He calls everyone, everytime they hear the Word of God; which is why it will never return void, in that it always accomplishes the purpose of granting us sinners the brief moment of freedom from bias so as to choose Christ. However ones own personal deeds may cause one to think oneself unworthy, unsaveable, or some such other self-imposed refusal during this time of freedom

    Now as to election it exists in that God knowing all knows what is needed to bring about His will is actively doing so in such a fashion as not to violate man's ability to choose - save the odd uncorrupting of it at certain moments, by timely applications of the Word and Holy Spirit.
    Since God knowing the results of all our choices, past, present, future has since the beginning of time, laid out plans for every single eventuality.
    THAT is SOVEREIGNTY

    God affects our choices and guides our lives - by weather, demonic attacks, each and every event, but He does not touch our ability to choose

    We can accept the call of the Spirit - believe it to be true, but we must go one more step and repent

    Turning from our wrong does not save us, tho, it is the seal upon the faith based act which proves it as true.

    Ill try summarizing - although so much needs to go on

    Adam-perfect
    Adam fell-image marred - sin NATURE imputed NOT sin

    We cannot save ourselves, but we can damn ourselves
    Holy Spirit must call
    Holy Spirit calls all
    We must respond to that call

    The elect exist for two-fold purpose
    to extend a personal call to the greatest number of people
    to specially equip or be equipped for a specific task - usually relating to evangelism or stewardship
     
    #1 Sularis, Jun 26, 2003
  2. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Interesting... I see why you are so confused :confused: ... The Primitive Baptist which I am a member believe Adam was cursed in his entirety... Body... Soul... And Spirit!... Totally Depraved... Totally Dead!... Like I said in other threads how dead do we want old Adam?... If there is any spark of life where he can choose then in whose hand is his eternal salvation?... His? :confused: :eek: ... Perish the thought for if it is in his hand to apprehend or lose can he hold on to it? :eek:

    It states his heart is only evil continually... He comes forth from the womb speaking lies... Since there is a spark there and he is not totally dead in trespasses and in sin why does he need to be quickened?... He was purchased in the halls of glory and eternity between the Father and the Son before he saw the light of day in election... The promises of God are sure having this seal the Lord knoweth them that are his... Why do some on here and in different circles want to say they are not?... Can you be a child of God one day bound for glory commit a sin and automatically be on your way to HELL?

    Where is the forgiveness or is there none?... If the GIFT... You know we need to underline that!... THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE!... How come some say we can flip flop out of eternal life at WILL?... What kind of GIFT IS THAT?... Then they use the old axiom... Well That Brother or Sister NEVER had Eternal Life in the first place!... How do we know are we God?... Are we playing GOD?... God knows all his grace wrought blood bought children and WILL SAVE THEM ALL and that is all I need to know... You believe in the PROMISES OF GOD... Don't YOU?... I just love the Lord with all I have and my neighbor as myself and that is all that is required of me!

    I know this is not Christmas but let me draw an illustration... Every year we put gifts under the Christmas tree from us to the various loved ones we hold dear... It is a GIFT from us to them!

    2,000 years ago God gave us the GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE... The water and the blood of JESUS CHRIST that ran down Calvary's Tree was GOD"S GIFT to US who he choose in the halls of eternity and glory... A covenant made between the GODHEAD... GOD THE FATHER... GOD THE SON... AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT... THE LAMB OF GOD'S BLOOD REDEEMED US... AND HIS RESURRECTION SEALED THE PROMISE! [​IMG] ... AMEN!... GLORY HALLELUJAH!... OSAS! [​IMG] ... Btw I have no use for YO-YO SALVATION... It is and still continues to be an ABOMINATION and A STENCH IN GOD'S NOSTRILS! :mad: ... To each his own!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
    #2 tyndale1946, Jun 26, 2003
  3. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Tyndale1946,
    Tell me then, How did Abel recognize God and therefore offer up acceptable sacrifice to GOD!

    After discovering his nakedness in the Garden, the damage already having been done, how did Adam recognize God while still in the Garden? How did Adam recognize God outside of the Garden? Remember, Sin had already won! Adam was now completely and Totally Depraved, Totally Dead. His body was dead, he could not have even walk out of the Garden, let alone father three men and an undisclosed number of women. He could not have Known Eve so that she would conceive, he was totally dead, and so was she! Adam could not have lived some 930 years if he were totally depraved and totally dead.

    Unto thee shall be his desire? Whose desire...Sin? Rule over him...sin? If you live well you will rule over sin?

    Or does this mean that Cain will rule over Abel because of the desire of Abel's heart? Remember before you answer, that if Totally Depraved, and Totally Dead, neither Cain nor Abel have overcome the grip of Sin, so Abel is not going to desire the rulership of his older brother.

    Scripture here seems to say that we, if we live well, shall rule over sin. And that is what other scriptures throughout the Holy Bible also say!
     
    #3 Yelsew, Jun 26, 2003
  4. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    You know Yelsew I'm not going to explain Totally Depravity to you I will let some of the other brethren on here explain it to you!... Because of Adam and Eves total depravity it didn't kill them on the spot if it did there would not be any Yelsew... But they died anyway corporally according to their sin!

    Why did one brother kill the other?... Seems to me that both brothers were totally depraved... Or did it skip one brother... The one that didn't kill or was his heart changed not giving him the inclination to kill and the other brothers heart was not changed!... If we are consistent with the doctrine of total depravity then both brothers were depraved... Question if Abel lived would not Abel have died... If not why not?... Yelsew... You still do not understand the doctrine of Total Depravity!... Like I say... To each his own
     
    #4 tyndale1946, Jun 26, 2003
  5. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    God taught Adam by the Spirit that the only way for man to approach Him after the fall was through a blood sacrifice. Abel brought this blood sacrifice; Cain refused and brought a sacrifice of his own will and flesh.

    When God said to Cain that he would rule over him he was not speaking of Abel, but of the father of sin.

    Do we not rule over him through the blood of the Lamb of God?

    In Egypt, there was a plague given through Moses in which the Power of God turned the water into blood. The Egyptian priests did imitate this; so this teaches us that Satan and his workers are certainly able to imitate the truth, but these same are not able to accept dying to self, this is what Jesus Christ did when He left His glory and took on Himself the flesh of man. Satan is not able to accept humility, he is not able to offer to man a true sacrifice for sin, what he is able to do is offer to man a way that is much easier and many accept this way because it looks right to them. Even as it did to Cain.

    These things are Scripture.

    Bro. Dallas Eaton
    Matt. 26.53-58
     
    #5 Frogman, Jun 27, 2003
  6. Sola-Scriptura

    Sola-Scriptura New Member

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    Sularis said...
    So what you're saying is that God took a huge risk in sending Christ to the cross. There was a distinct possibility that NOBODY might have believed, because God's little carrot dangling during those so called uncorrupt certain moments might not have worked? Do you honestly picture puny, wicked men as able to tie the hands of the Almighty?
    You said:
    Poor God, having to look all that way through history and react to what we might decide to do. Souds like quite the sure plan! Sounds like open theology to me.
     
    #6 Sola-Scriptura, Jun 30, 2003
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