"Except a man be born again,"

Just how does one get "born again"?

Jesus said ye must be born again. He did not say, "I will rebirth you".

What does it mean to be born again?

The spirit of man exists, I believe, from conception for "the spirit is the life of the flesh". Therefore when a child is born it has a human spirit, though dead to God, lest the flesh be dead! By the fact that the lineage of man is "cursed" with original sin from Adam and Eve, the human spirit's "persuasion" is that of the sin nature. To be born again, the spirit of man must be persuaded to change or be 'reborn with a new persuasion'.

By hearing the word of God and believing in Jesus, one's spirit is persuaded from sin nature to holiness nature. Continual hearing and believing, which is faith, continues the persuasion process in the human spirit toward "sinlessness", making sinlessness the dominant persuasion in the spirit. The believing spirit is striving to live up to the command to "be holy as I am holy". But even if the new born spirit sins, that new spirit can confess the sins and be assured of forgiveness, 1 John 1:9.

Initial belief in Jesus, and confession of who Jesus is, marks the one's spirit with the blood of Jesus. This "laundry mark" with a matching entry in the 'Book of Life' says to the Judge that this spirit belongs to His Son, and it is separated from the goats, thus being placed among the sheep. That "Laundry Mark" is the mark of redemption that keeps the believer from being thrown into the lake of fire of Revelation 20:11-15.

Thus Salvation is assured by the spirit being reborn.

[ January 11, 2003, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Yelsew ]

 

John 1:12-13 answers your question: By God ... not by the will of man. Just as a child does not will himself into physical life, so your spirit does not will itself into spiritual life. It is the work of God in regeneration.

 

Pastor Larry,

I was wondering how exactly you believe concerning this. I am confused because it seems like sometimes you say that we believe in order to be saved, and other times that we are born again and then believe. Which one do you believe? Don't get me wrong because I'm not trying to be rude or anything like that. It's just confusion on my part, and I was wanting to know. Thanks.

 

Choose you this day whom you will serve!
As for me, and my house, we will serve the Lord!

 

Technically speaking, my ordo salutis runs 1) Election; 2) Effectual call 3) repentance and faith; 4) regeneration. In principle, I have no real difference with those who say that regeneration precedes faith. Both they and I agree that there must be a unilateral, sovereign, and effectual work of the Holy Spirit that will certainly bring belief. Our difference is what we call it.

 

I think we all agree with that. However, it has no real bearing on this discussion. All men are commanded to repent and believe. However, not all are obedient. They, of their own free will, choose to not repent and believe. But, as I say, this passage you cite above does not really address this issue so it appears to be out of place in this forum

 

If man chooses "not to repent and believe", then man also chooses "to repent and believe". Man is not preconditioned to repent and believe, he must choose to do so!

[ January 11, 2003, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Yelsew ]

 

Dont you think numbers 3 and 4 are backwards?

Regeneration then repentence and faith?

 

Pastor Larry,

In other words, God draws the elect effectually to Jesus Christ and grants them repentance and faith. By faith, as an instrument, they then receive the righteousness of Christ and are therefore regenerated. I was reading some Reformed Baptist materials and I never could get the regeneration/effectual calling into place. The scenario I just gave is somewhat different from regeneration first because if you are regenerated first, you are saved BEFORE you believe, whereas in the scenario I gave, faith receives salvation, justification, etc. Does that make sense?

 

I don't but many do. I have no quarrel with them. As I say, we agree in principle; we call them different things. Traditionally the "regeneration preceding faith" argument has been a theological one. I can account for the theological necessity of divine enablement through the effectual call (which Murray defines as divine enablement). I limit "regeneration" to the kind of life that God gives as a result of faith. The difference between me and the traditional reformed position is one of semantics. What they call regeneration, I call the effectual call. What I call regeneration, they usually call eternal life.

 

Yes it makes sense. Most reformed soteriologists do not make a huge distinction between regeneration and effectual calling. The only reason I do is because, to me, regeneration is life, and in John's writing, we believe unto life; in Acts, repentance unto life was granted to the Gentiles (Acts 11:18). In essence I agree with the traditional position; I just use different terms for it.

 

tnelson,

I'm not aware of anybody here teaching that the final decision is left up to man. Pastor Larry and I were discussing the order of salvation. Does God give life first or does He draw a man, grant him faith and repentance, and then regenerate him? The issue here is the instrumentality of faith. John Calvin likened faith to a vessel that is given to the elect by God. God gives the elect this vessel whereby we receive the righteousness of Christ. After all, Paul did write "by grace through faith." Faith receives Jesus Christ. That is what this discussion is about. It has nothing to do with whether or not man makes the final decision. I never stated my position. I was simply inquiring about the view of Pastor Larry. However, since we are on the topic, why do we not discuss this issue. Pastor Larry mentioned the Gospel of John and "believing unto life" and Acts 11:18, "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." If these people already had life, how were they granted "repentance unto life?" That is a good question and worthy of our attention. Concerning Lydia, does God opening her heart correspond to regeneration or the drawing power of God (John 6:44)?

 

Nobody here is claiming that we are in Christ by free will or good works. Both Pastor Larry and I are Calvinists. We are talking about the divine order of salvation.

Scenario #1

1. God regenerates a sinner.
2. The sinner comes to faith and repentance.

Scenario #2

1. God draws a man.
2. The man is granted faith and repentance.
3. By faith, the man receives the righteousness of Christ, hence, "by grace through faith."

The only difference is that in scenario #2, the man receives the righteousness of Christ by faith, whereas in scenario #1, the sinner does not receive anything by faith but only perceives that which he already has. Which is it? That is the issue, not salvation by free will or good works.

 

Pastor Larry,
If you dont mind me asking, what part of Michigan are you from. I have two brothers who are Baptist Pastors there. Kalamazoo, Battle Creek.

 

Metro Detroit ... Long ways from K-zoo and Battle Creek.