NKJV/NASB/ESV

Strong's is a very superficial resource. I would not base anything on Strong's. He summarizes in a line or two what the lexicons expound on for a much greater amount of space. Having said that, the word porneia means sexual immorality.

Not in common usage. When we say that a young lady or man was "immoral," we know exactly what is being referred to.

Of course not. That is hardly relevant, since the word in question has nothing to do with cheating at cards. When you say "Betty was immoral," the first question that pops into your mind is probably not where she hid the cards. Right?

 

I carry a NKJV. I use a NASB in study, as well as NKJV. I haven't got a ESV yet, so I dunno.

 

I prefer the NASB but I've used NIV, NKJV, the NET Bible, and NLT.

I've looked at ESV renderings online but have not bought an ESV bible yet as I'm not sure I would like it better than the NASB, and I'm waiting for a good ESV Study Bible to come out (besides the Reformation one that is out now).

The NKJV is good, but I am more at home in the language of the NASB and I think it's more accurate. I usually take the NASB to church and use it for my Bible studies, but I keep a NKJV on my desk for quick reference. I like the notes in it - it's a Baptist Study Edition and the notes and charts are really helpful.

 

Pastor Larry,

You said regarding general "immorality" being different from "sexual immorality"...

Here is how "immoral" is defined in dictionaries...


American Heritage Dictionary
Contrary to established moral principles.

Princeton University WordNet
adj 1: violating principles of right and wrong 2: not adhering to ethical or moral principles; "base and unpatriotic motives"; "a base, degrading way of life"; "cheating is dishonorable"; "they considered colonialism immoral"; "unethical practices in handling public funds" 3: morally unprincipled; "immoral behavior" 4: characterized by wickedness or immorality; "led a very bad life" 5: marked by immorality; deviating from what is considered right or proper or good; "depraved criminals"; "a perverted sense of loyalty"; "the reprobate conduct of a gambling aristocrat"


It appears that the idea of "immoral" having sexual connotation is not as common as you think.

 

I have never heard anyone in preaching use "immoral" in anything but a sexual connotation. If you want to use "sexually immoral" that is fine. I would use that myself. But "immoral" certainly isn't a bad translation.

 

Pastor Larry,

I don't want you to get me wrong. I think the NASB is a great translation. The couple of things that i mentioned (too dynamic in parts of the OT and the word porneia) are just the minor weaknesses that i see with the translation. All translations have their quirks, as long as we are aware of what the text says it wouldn't affect our teaching or preaching. I think that's why it is important that those who preach and teach learn the original languages as well.

Personally i think in these couple of weaknesses that i find in the NASB the ESV has done a better job. However, the ESV has its share of quirks also.

I like the way the ESV translates the Hebrew "ach" as "brother" instead of
"countryman" (lev 19:17, et al), as well as some other translational decisions they have made. The one thing that drives me crazy about the ESV is the way it renders 1 Sam 13:1...

Saul was . . . years old when he began to reign, and he reigned . . . and two years over Israel.

I know there are textual issues here, but reading this in public would be very difficult. In this instance i like what the NASB did by putting words in italics so that the verse can read well, and at the same time we know it is not in the actual text...

Saul was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty two years over Israel.

 

Do what?

I am sure Spurgeon would not touch the NASB with a ten foot pole!Hello!:Fish:
Matthew 16:3

"0 ye hypocrites" omitted by the DR, RV, Ne, NIV, NKJV marg., RSV, GN, LB, AMP, NASV, NEB, NWT, JB. Burgon (14) p316 cites Aleph and B as the authorities for this omission and the notes, italics or parentheses disputing the Lord's words in verses 2 and 3 in the NIV, Ne, RSV, GN, AMP, NEB, NWT. Berry's Greek text supports this passage. Taken from appendix 2, III: "O Biblios The Book," by Allan O'Reilly

 

Duh !

Cause he Brouhgt it up!
Mark 14:68
"and the cock crew" has been omitted from Ne, NIV, RSV, GN marg., LB marg., NASV, NEB, NWT, JB. AMP italicises the words. Ruckman (54) p 17, indicates that the words are found in all four families of manuscripts and in the vast majority of extant manuscripts. Berry's Greek text supports this passage. Taken from appendix 2, III: "O Biblios The Book," by Allan O'Reilly

 

William , something tells me that you don't know Spurgeon that well . Do you know that he quoted from the RV approvingly at times ?

 

All Willy can do here lately is spout quotes from that "groddy" book (to quote Roby).

I doubt Willy has ever read Spurgeon... besides a quote here or there.

 

SAY What?

Show me where he did,and if it is indeed an original quote.

 

Sure

I had His Library downloaded to my hard drive and read a few of his semons ,Very good,I might say and his defense on Calvanism which interrested me ,But again even beeing known as the prince of the preachers he is still a man!:Fish:

 

Ever read any of his other works? Ever study his vast knowledge, his deep metaphors?

Did you ever hear of him bashing any other translation, or advocating the KJVO rhetoric?

 

The following pieces of info are from "God's Word in our Hands . " Drew Conley wrote a chapter called "The Voice Of The Preachers " .

Once the English Revised Version came out , he immediately made use of it , at times taking his text from the new translation . His high esteem for the Authorized Version remained intact , however , and he considered the old translation generally superior to the new . Nontheless , he would choose the wording of the English Revised Version over that of the King James whenever he considered it an improvement . And he did so in the majority of his sermons from 1881 onward . ( pages 58,59 )

Conley then cites about 17 passages where Spurgeon used the RV approvingly . I don't have time to type them all out now . Anyway William , -- you have been misinformed on this issue . Here is an opportunity to change .

 

larryjf said:

Here is how "immoral" is defined in dictionaries...

Do you understand the difference between connotation and denotation?

Denotation is what the dictionary says the word means.

Connotation is what people understand when they hear the word used.

Maybe the AHD does say that immorality simply means contrary to established moral principle. But that is not what people hear when you refer to a person as "immoral."

Besides, the AHD has a reputation as an established prescriptive dictionary - its definitions are of how the editors think the words should be used. This is as opposed to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, which is a descriptive dictionary, meaning it defines the words the way people actually use them. Webster's definition agrees with the AHD, but qualifies its definition with the word "Broadly." This means that they probably would agree with Pastor Larry that the way people actually use the word "immoral" has a more restrictive connotation.

 

Ransom,

I would have to still disagree that the word "immoral" has to mean sexually or is even generally understood as meaning sexually.

I have actually been asked the question based off of the Matthew verse i mentioned as to how loose the rules are for getting divorce. So i do know that there are a good number of people who do not understand immorality as something inheritantly sexual.

Why would so many other translations translate it as "sexual immorality" if it was so generally understood as simply "immorality?"

Like i said in my previous post, as long as you understand what the word means i don't really see it as a problem. I just don't particulary like that translation of porneia.

Since you prefer Merriam-Webster, here's their definition of immorality...

not moral; broadly : conflicting with generally or traditionally held moral principles

Again, nothing about sexuality.

If we can't base our definitions of words off of our dictionaries, then we really have no common ground to speak on these matters.

 

I must say that i am a little confused why some folks care so much that i prefer "porneia" to be translated as "sexual immorality."

 

I have no problem, and in response to whoever said most people know what you mean when you say soneone was being immoral...

Sexual immorality is not the first thing that comes to mind when I hear someone was being immoral, the first thing that comes to mind is what were they doing?

 

It's the first thing I think of. Let me check with some other people, and see what they think.