Compromisers Promoted At Bob Jones University

Greg,

It doesn't matter to me if I am "rubbed-out" because, quite frankly, I don't care what they think. It does matter that they can permanently damage the life of my family. How would you feel if your employer called you into the office to say, you're fired, your kids are no longer enrolled in college, high school and elementary school, you have no health insurance and you must vacate OUR home in 24 hours. You have made little enough money over the years that your savings won't last long and you must tell your future employers that you were fired.

Now, that's being rubbed-out.

 

There is a lot of absolute trash being told here and I think the people involved know it. This is an embarrassment to many of you. The unfortunate thing is that many are not able to recognize the trash that is coming out of here. They read what you guys say and think it is true. Most of it is not. It is a shame that among professing Christians, this stuff goes on.

The fact remains that BJIII and BJU only affects those who let themselves be affected by that. I just have to laugh at this stuff. It is truly hilarious. You guys are apparently scared to death. You shouldn't be. You should get on with your lives.

 

To be fair, 2atlow8, there is probably a lot more to this story than what you are mentioning. Frankly, I cannot conceive of the university doing that simply because someone planned to change jobs in a few months.

Andy

 

If BJIII is a "pope"-like figure, he is made so because people have elevated him to that level. They would be just as much, if not more guilty for elevating him to that status as BJIII for assuming it.

No one here at my church contacted BJIII to get his approval when they extended the call. Godly churches can and do exist outside the "BJU orbit." Consider two examples- extreme, perhaps, but relevant: John MacArthur and Arlin Horton. They both seem to be doing "okay" despite their stated disagreements with BJU, and BJU's stated disagreements with them.

My point continues to be this- if you are doing what is right, it shouldn't matter what anyone thinks. If you lose your job and benefits at BJU, for example, but lose these things because you have followed your Biblical convictions, well, Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake. If you end up in a smaller church, or a lower-profile situation than you might have if you had the "Official BJ Blessing," Praise the Lord, and plug away! God doesn't need BJU to make your church or ministry a success.

And 2atlow8, again I would submit to you: if the BJ system is as bad as you describe, the best thing that could happen to your family would be for them to cease indoctrinating their children in "the system." Many people live without health insurance and so on- ask many pastors on this board. If things have been as controlling as some here have described, though, I would submit that at least some responsibility lies with those who agree to work under such conditions. Such an established pattern must certainly have been observed over a long period of time. That choice, in my opinion, exhibits a tremendous lack of discernment and a terrible risk to your family by accepting such a position in the first place.

(Note: I am not saying the BJU circumstances are as bad as have been described- just taking the assumptions to their logical conclusions.)

 

At BJU, as at most schools (secular as well), faculty and staff are required to state their intentions for the upcoming year by around the end of February or so. Immediate firings are based on other issues.

 

I don't know anything about BJU in this regard, but I know of PCC doing this kind of thing.

A long-time friend of mine & her husband were living in Pensacola a few years ago. Her husband was/is a Commander in the U.S. Navy, and he was stationed at Pensacola N.A.S. at the time. My friend (Bachelor's & Master's in English; several years of experience teaching at both secondary & post-secondary levels) was hired by PCC to teach in the English department. Both she & her husband have their undergrad degrees from BJU.

Shortly before the school year began she was summoned to her department head's office, and asked why her oldest son was a student at BJU, and not PCC. She says that she made no attempt to "hide" this fact in her application process to PCC; and why would she? She says that she was then basically told something to this effect: "If PCC isn't good enough for your son, then we don't have any need for your services here." So she left the office, fired from a position she hadn't yet begun.

 

I do have proof and you know it. I wrote to you almost a week ago to appeal to your privately concerning this matter. I know for a fact that some of the things you have said are lies. I told you that publicly here and offered additional support in private. I know for a fact that many of the things you have said are outright misrepresentations. I have no particular affinity for BJIII or BJU. I certainly do not regard him as the pope, nor am I concenred that he might "rub me out." But there are certain things being said that are plainly false and need to be confronted.

I am not laughing at sin (although laughing at your tactics may well put me in that category). What I find funny is the lengths to which you have gone to attack someone. It is completely unbiblical. You are out of line. You seem very disgruntled that your opinion is not followed and have taken it upon yourself to air your grievances in a public forum. That is an unethical way to solve your problems. You have too high a view of yourself and your own opinion, it seems to me. You seem to think that wisdom ends with you and that anyone who doesn't do it your way or listen to your advice is sinning against God. That is a poor standard for judgment, as has been pointed out to you many times. YOu got upset when BJIII did not respond to your confrontation. But now you do the exact same thing ... refuse to respond to confrontation. Why are you inconsistent?

YOu are likely referring to Builder of Bridges which was put out around that time, written by RK Johnson, the long time business manager at the school. There is also a newer book entitled Standing without Apology, which began as a doctoral dissertation from the University of Illinois. It is written by current faculty member Dan Turner. There is also a book entitled Island in the Lake of Fire, a doctoral dissertation from the University of Georgia, written by a complete outsider. All three are valuable sources of information.

The issue to which you refer is likely the issue with Ted Mercer, who served at BJU from the mids 40s to the early 50s. He served a variety of roles, including Registrar and assistant to the President. You can read about it in Standing Without Apology, on pp. 153-159. There are many reasons why Mercer was fired, the heart of which was loyalty. Mercer developed a following, apparently by bending the rules and getting students off the hook for demerits. There were many issues at hand, but Jones Sr. stood by Mercer all the way to the end, just before he was fired. In departing, Mercer stole the only complete mailing list and wrote three booklets detailing his beefs with BJU, which he mailed to all fo the students. He accused Jones Sr. of some serious charges. BJU apparenlty never made a public statement concerning the matter until the publication of STanding. The records were sealed until that time, according to Turner.

Mercer showed himself to be disloyal to the school, to be working against its purposes, and therefore, his firing was justified. It is certainly not unreasonable to expect employees to be loyal to their employers.

Turner's account is well documented, including 50 footnotes for just those 7 pages. In fact, the chapter is 7 pages long. The footnotes are 4 pages long of considerably smaller typeface. They include interviews, correspondence, board meeting minutes, newspaper articles, etc.

They indicate that there was in fact no paranoia at all. The founder was very loyal to Mercer all the way to the end. It was the board of trustees that voted to fire Mercer. Bob Sr fired him, with a severance check of $500 (a considerable amount of money in the early 50s) and a note that there was no personal animosity towards either Mercer or his wife.

 

Well, he is the president of the univeristy. Who do you think should be at the top of the chain of command?

But Pope? I must not run in the right circles because I don't know anyone who treats BJIII in that manner. There is certainly no one on this board who does.

Andy

 

Have you actually read what I wrote, man. My family is content where they are. They feel no reason to leave. My in-laws are not there, they were asked to leave on 24 hrs notice. I could give the gory details but I won't. Suffice it to say I have told no lie, fabrication, exageration, or even stretch. I was there, I saw it, no memory bending has taken place.

Now, I disagreed with Foxrev in the signing of some document, I disagree with Foxrev that the place is in an apostacy slide into the toilet. I agree with Foxrev that the place has a very long reach.

I would just hate for anything I say on this board to reflect negatively on my family who feels they are in God's will serving at BJU. My neices and nephews are very happy there and are getting a first class education from a private college.

I wouldn't make it three hours today after surviving 4 years 20 year ago.

 

I'd just be curious to see a short summary of what Dr. Bob, Squire, and Pastor Larry have against BJU. What is it, is it strictly this "separation" issues. Is that all of it? Could you show me what a perfect college is?
I'm just curious. Your little digs in your post to clearly state that you don't agree with BJ and wouldn't recommend your kids attend there (at least I thought I saw a post by Dr. Bob stating he wouldn't want anyone to attend there).
Can you all deny that they put out some of the finest kids around. Our church probably sends 23-15 students a year to BJ, and most of them come back preachers, missionaries, or laymen completely devoted to Christ. Of course there is always a few who don't, but any college will have those. The preacher boys seem to come back highly schooled(skilled) and knowledgeable.
Like I said, just curious what it is that bothers you guys.

thanks,
Todd

 

I'm not defending anyone. I'm trying to point out the flaws in your logic.

Just because BJ3 (apparently) DEMANDS loyalty doesn't mean that you are OBLIGATED to give it to him. You and countless other alumni have a choice in the matter. The responsibility is to those who follow (apparently blindly) as well. That is what I'm saying.

I'm also saying this, foxrev: If we follow your assumptions to their logical conclusion, those who display unquestioning loyalty to BJ3 are either 1. Not going to hear your concerns, or 2. Not going to react to your concerns because of fear of being "rubbed out."

Tell your concerns to BJ3. If your concerns aren't addressed to your satisfaction, stop recommending your students attend there, withold your donations, and cancel your subscription to Today's Christian Preacher- then move on!

 

Forgive my ignorance... What are these CAT 3 things. Levels of separation?

 

Pastor Larry,

You were painting with an awful wide brush.

I hope you weren't refering to me. My story is true.

My explanation as to why some care so much about BJU's approval is just that. An explanation. Some people really do want to belong to that sphere. Indoctrination is very strong at BJU. Abnormal psychological attachments are created.

Leaving BJU on your own is paramount to being outside of God's will. This was stated privately, from the dean's office, from the chapel, from the dorm rooms, etc.