Luther Rice Bible College and Seminary

I ask about this "hidden information" from the fear to don't be just a rummer (not from you Martin, I saw many messages from you and I like your very active intervetions)!

European

 

Broadus,

What compelled you to earn another M.Div. and then the Ph.D. at SBTS after earning the M.Div. and D.Min. at LRS?

 

Mid-life crisis? OK, get a snack---I can't explain without some detail.

When I did the LRS MDiv, it was an 88-hour degree. LRS accepted a large number of hours which I did at Hyles-Anderson (MEd), so basically I had an MDiv that was heavy on the practical and light on the academic. For instance, my LRS MDiv did not have any biblical languages, church history, and only minimum work in theology.

I knew that I wanted to learn more, so I did the DMin at LRS and was able to substitute some of the coursework with more academic selections. For instance, I took "The Theology of Election" with Dr. Maurice Robinson, then at LRS and now at SEBTS, instead of a more practical DMin course. My major writing project, instead of the typically practical something-I-did-in-my-church report, was an exposition of the book of Titus---not a collection of sermons, mind you, but a fairly intensive examination of the text.

After I received the DMin in 1992, I was still plagued by an awareness of being ill-equipped to be the kind of pastor which I believed God would have me be. Consequently, I began taking MDiv extension courses in Georgia from Southeastern and New Orleans. The work with SEBTS, in particular, was very rewarding. After some 33 hours of this, I realized that only completing the MDiv and doing a PhD would I be satisfied with my formal training. Consequently, I resigned from my 8-year pastorate in south Georgia and moved my family (wife, three daughters---two were teenagers, and teacup poodle) to Kentucky to complete the MDiv and pursue the PhD, graduating in 1998 and 2003, respectively.

I don't want to imply anything negatively about LRS. I am convinced that LRS is much stronger academically today than when I did the MDiv, graduating in 1985, and do not hesitate to recommend it.

Bill

 

What was your experience at SBTS? Did you pastor while you attended seminary and did your Ph.D.?

In what ways was the Ph.D. experience rewarding? Any drawbacks?

Are you teaching today or pastoring a church?

Would you recommend SBTS for Ph.D. work. Would you recommend Baylor?

Thanks.

 

I did my work in the School of Theology and was very satisfied. The work was rigorous, challenging, and valuable. I did pastor a small, country church in neighboring Shelby County, KY, from 1997-2002, and I served in the ministry referral office at SBTS during the PhD years, as well.

I loved the PhD work. Make sure that you choose an area that will allow you to pursue your interest. Mine is Baptist ecclesiology, so my major area was Church History, and I focused upon Baptist history with a couple of other history seminars (Theology of John Calvin and Schisms and Controversies in American Christianity). Also, make sure that you relate well with your supervisor. Mine was Dr. Tom Nettles, who is a learned Baptist historian and super Southern gentleman.

I cannot really think of any drawbacks, except a couple of short seminars required through the education school. There are always a couple of hoops in any program, but you jump through so you can get on with what you want.

I pastor Cornerstone Baptist Church in Clinton, SC ( www.cornerstonebaptistclinton.org ). I did not intend to teach when I went into the PhD program, though I would like to teach adjunctively, if the situation arises. I reject the notion that the PhD is for teachers and pastors need to do the DMin. Nothing against the DMin, but, IMO, we need more pastors who have earned PhD's. It is, of course, not essential, but the level of teaching in our churches needs to be raised. A PhD necessarily helps to develop the student's research and communication skills, skills quite useful, obviously, in the pastorate.

I would definitely recommend PhD work at Southern. I really don't know anything about Baylor's programs. A lot depends upon what you're seeking to accomplish.

Blessings,
Bill

 

Not to doubt you or anything, Martin- -because I agree with European's appraisal of your posts. On the other hand, I followed that link and never saw anything about accreditation. Did I miss it?

 

Thanks Bill,

I'm working on a D.Min. at Gordon-Conwell which is much more like a Ph.D. program than a typical D.Min. (I would put it at the level of UNISA). I'm focusing on Revival and Reform and doing my dissertation in the area of the fundamentalist/modernist controversy in regards to Darwinism, materialism, and humanism and the negative effect that has had on American culture. I would classify it as a "historical theology" major. All of my course work has dealt with history, from the Puritans forward.

If I remain in the pastorate, I will be more than satisfied with the program at Gordon-Conwell. I am praying about a teaching career, however, and think that Baylor might set me up for more opportunities than SBTS. I'm 43 now, and would consider the Ph.D. progam after I finish my D.Min. next October and graduate in May 2007. So I'm getting close to that age of "do or die." At Baylor, I would be a graduate assistant and gain experience teaching, etc.

 

I suspect LRS will provide greater publicity for receipt of as opposed to application for regional accreditation. In the meantime, the following hopefully provides adequate confirmation of this effort:

Attached is a link to “Message from the Provost” (Dr. John Borek) that confirms the SACS regional accreditation initiative.

http://www.lrs.edu/resources/accreditation/MessageFromTheProvost.pdf

Also attached is a link to the SACS database that lists LRS as in “Applicant” status.

http://www.sacscoc.org/dtails.asp?instid=45140

(edited for proper quoting)

[ April 23, 2005, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Squire Robertsson ]

 

You are absolutely right. But what is needed even more is a pastor that will lead and train people to do ministry. Ministry is never learned from a book but by obedience. Discipleship is learned through obedience. Knowledge of scripture is learned through an obedient heart. So many are taught to think that discipleship is learned through a bok in the comfort of a church. It is not. It is only learned in the field.

I have never met a person who is making disciples who is not growing in obedience and knowledge. Never have I met a person who does evangelism and makes disciples ever stray far from the truth.

If you want to get challenged read what is posted at http://www.bibleteacher.org/Dm118_8.htm

 

A couple of comments.

One....I have a lot of respect for LRS and their adherence to their mission.

Two...I am supportive of their pursuit of SACS accreditation although amused. I once talked to someone at LRS (10 years ago ??) who said Regional Accreditation would never happen (ie they would never purusue it).

Finally...good luck with the DMin Paul. There is a great deal of variation among DMin programs and yes there are some that are basically PhD programs without the moniker.

Okay....I fibbed. Someone else mentioned that having a doctorate (DMin or PhD) is fine but we need pastors who disciple. That is true. We need more Chuck Smith's with a love for the gospel and a desire to make Him known. Yes....we also need well educated pastors.

Incidentally, I have noticed that for Pastors to get ahead these days (ie move up to the First Church of SomeTown) there is an increasing tendency to want pastors with doctorates (be they PhD or DMin). Congregations seem to feel that will reflect well on them.

North

 

Family responsibilities! I already have eight kids!

 

Wow Paul.......

I had it easy. I pursued my 60 credit hour DMin while I was separated from my wife (we finally got back together). The separation actually gave me the ability to study and God used the material to heal our marriage. I finished the 200 page dissertation when we were back together and there was a lot of difference (ie much harder to do with family).

Eight kids though....I am impressed. You have many arrows in your quiver.

North

 

Hi European!

I have been communicating for a few years with a man in Petrosani, Romania, who was taking online courses from Luther Rice. I considered the doctoral programme, but the TRACS - only accreditation would not do for my goal of teaching in a Bible College. The new accreditation goal is good news.