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Advice re a project, please?

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by UZThD, Jun 5, 2005.

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  1. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    I hope the mods will allow me to post this here, and that my brethren will help me out.

    I'd like to get responses mainly from pastors or educators or seminarians who might be more aware of what's needed than are lay people in general, so, I thought my question would be best answered in this forum rather than Bible Study.

    My dissertation was done on the Person of Christ. It was finished a few mos back. I also taught public secondary school for 35 years. So, I know how to communicate using both scholarly and technical jargon and concepts and otherwise too. I also taught adult SS classes for years, so I know what can be accomplished in such.

    I've been thinking about using the dissertation as a basis for writing a "textbook" intended for use in adult SS classes by adult laypersons.

    HERE'S MY QUESTION:

    Is there a need for such a product which would explain such issues as (examples) ...

    THE PERSON OF CHRIST

    1.His Godhood

    a) Divine names
    b) Divine qualities and works
    c) The unity of God and the relationships of the Persons

    2. His Manhood

    a) Virgin Birth, Incarnation, Sinlessness
    b) His complete humanity
    c) The unity of His Person and relationships of the natures.

    ...and, which both would explain these issues in a manner the adult SS student could understand ...

    with discussion questions and encouragements for making personal applications to living for Christ...

    and with as endnotes expansive and detailed comments for those who wish more thorough study???

    (Probably around 150 pages).


    I'm excited about the notion of doing this, and think that I am qualified and have certain perspectives on the subjects I'd like to popularize, but if the Church is inundated with similar and good literature, then, I'd probably not want to do it.

    Please give me your opinions.

    Sincere Thanks,

    Bill G.

    [ June 05, 2005, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: UZThD ]
     
    #1 UZThD, Jun 5, 2005
  2. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Bill,

    Go for it! This sounds great.

    In posting with you I learned some knew things about the nature of Christ and current scholarship. This is greatly needed.

    I'm thinking the market might be small because so many don't study doctrine anymore. But that might be all the more reason why you ought to do this!

    I'll buy a signed autographed copy when you are done!

    A well reasoned but lay level discussion of the nature of Christ and the intricacies of the trinity would be exciting!
     
    #2 Paul33, Jun 5, 2005
  3. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    Paul

    Thanks a lot for that encouragement. I confess I get as hyped up over such ideas as a kid does over a '68 Chevelle.

    Bill
     
    #3 UZThD, Jun 5, 2005
  4. Pipedude

    Pipedude Active Member

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    Sunday School meets once a week. How many weeks would it take to cover your material? Could a class's interest be sustained over that many weeks?

    Sounds like a topic that needs a lot of one-hour sessions.
     
    #4 Pipedude, Jun 5, 2005
  5. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

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    I really like the topic, Bill! Bouncing off Pipedude's comments, but not to create more work for you,could you give students a week's worth of handouts at a time so they could incorporate your teaching with their daily devotions? That model has worked well for Blackaby with his "Experiencing God" workbooks. You could get through more material that way. Just a thought.

    Tom
     
    #5 PatsFan, Jun 5, 2005
  6. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Bill,

    By all means write the book but don’t target just the Sunday School audience for the following reasons:
    1. You are aiming at too narrow of a base. Try for a general Christian audience for wider distribution and readership.
    2. Most Sunday Schools are already tied into a series of literature or a supplier. This limits your distribution even more.

    Here are a few suggestions:
    1. Try for the widest audience appeal possible. Be flexible enough to reach layman, pastor, Christian worker, etc.
    a. Keep sentences short and straightforward.
    b. Keep paragraphs short
    c. Keep the flow moving. Don’t get involved in long, tedious arguments or explanations. Save this for appendices.
    d. Put technical terms in everyday language.
    e. Make your language lively and interesting, not dead and academic.
    f. Use examples and illustrations throughout. People relate to this.
    g. Make useful applications to daily Christian living. Make it relevant to our lives.
    2. Translate your technical jargon into understandable language but strive for accuracy and clarity of expression. Mark Futato, Transformed by Praise, does this quite well. It doesn’t hurt to borrow ideas or stylistic techniques from another.
    3. If you must give a technical argument, do it in the appendices or footnotes. Use footnotes and appendices to broaden the book’s usefulness for pastors and Christian workers as well as the layman.
    4. Include questions or ideas for discussion at the end of chapters to make it useful for Bible study groups or Sunday School as the case may be.
    5. Give lots of Scripture. Quote and blend. List additional references in footnotes. Too many references in the text break up the flow for the reader.
    6. Don’t get bogged down in quoting commentators. Put the argument succinctly in your own words and footnote it.
    7. Let your human side as author come across to the reader.

    Bill, this topic certainly deserves attention but you must make it concrete and applicable to the Christian life. It may take as much work as your dissertation because you are trying to reach the general Christian reader with some heavy concepts. But, it can be done. People, outside of a few academics, just won’t read scholarly, intellectual stuff. You must put the hay down where the cows can get it.

    I want an autographed copy from the first printing. Best wishes.
    [​IMG]
     
    #6 paidagogos, Jun 6, 2005
  7. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Write it! [​IMG]
     
    #7 TexasSky, Jun 6, 2005
  8. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    Pipe

    I haven't outlined it yet. I was thinking of 25-50 weeks of 50 min classes. Possibly the study could be interrupted for another subject of several weeks and resumed later.

    In the adult church classes I have taught interest has been sustained over four months by the "regulars" in such subjects as Life of Christ or a Bible Book or an outline of doctrine. There were, however, other less "strenuous" SS classes running concurrently where the less academically oriented could attend.

    I really think it shameful that Christians lack the interest to seriously study the Person of the ONe who is the Center of our Faith.


    Tom

    Good idea, thanks! Actually perhaps each class unit of several pages could be self standing and so could be handed out the week prior to the meeting.


    Paid

    Thanks for taking your time and expertise to provide all those great suggestions. If I do the book I will carefully incorporate them.

    Texas

    I appreciate the encouragement. Thanks.


    Bill G.
     
    #8 UZThD, Jun 6, 2005
  9. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Bill (UZThD),

    It sounds like Pipedude and Patsfan and Paidogogos are "right on target."

    The "Experiencing God" model is very appealing and could be "applying" as well.

    I have just come off a 1 1/2 year Interim Pastorate. In SBC life,I can testify to the fact that the people are basic "Baptist Catholics."

    What I mean by this invented term is this:

    1. They don't want any Gospel that costs them anything personally.

    2. All of the Bible/Doctrine they get is from the minister or SS teacher (i.e., priest) in a short 30-45 minutes lecture or sermon once maybe twice weekly.

    3. They just want enough out of religion "to go to Heaven."

    4. The minister (or Priest as the case may be) is the only who should do the teaching, praying, ministry, etc. et al. They have the "that's what we hired you for preacher" attitude.

    5. They tend to be a "1/2" deep an 4 miles wide."

    In light of all of this, there is one thing they will do (if they do anything at all). Generally, they will read their Bibles regularly.

    Based on my observations above, the "Expeiencing God," devotional, and/or workbook model would be a good fit for our denom. It could be easily incorporated into the one major thing they do with any consistency.

    Above all though; you as the writer must follow the "KISS RULE!"

    Keep!

    It!

    Simple!

    Stupid!

    My two cents worth!

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #9 Rhetorician, Jun 6, 2005
  10. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Bottom line.

    DO IT in whatever form you can sell it!

    rd
     
    #10 Rhetorician, Jun 6, 2005
  11. untangled

    untangled Member

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    Hey Bill (aka: UZThD),

    I think it would be a wonderful idea. Baptists need to learn doctrine and then relearn it and then go over it some more. Don't get me wrong, there's a place in SS for learning about other things like Christian living, but I all too often see SS teachers just reading through a leaders guide and not preparing anything or reading it beforehand.

    To be honest I get nothing out of my Sunday School these days. I want a more doctrinally centered curriculum.

    I would like to read over it when you finish. Maybe even use it myself. Let me know. Shoot me an email if you don't mind. I'd like to hear more about it..

    In His Service,

    Brooks
     
    #11 untangled, Jun 6, 2005
  12. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    Rhet

    Thanks for the sage advice though it be based on a sad state of the Church. Revelation 3:2,3

    Bill
     
    #12 UZThD, Jun 6, 2005
  13. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    Hi Brooks

    We sure agree about the need for doctrinal instruction. I certainly will contact you with more details. Just give me a little while to think and pray and flesh it out.

    Bill
     
    #13 UZThD, Jun 6, 2005
  14. mjohnson7

    mjohnson7 Member

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    I think this would be a tremendous work! Being a pastor, I think everything Rhetorician said is correct....with that in mind, I find that the denominational literature is mostly milk with little meat. It would be refreshing to see a study such as yours. I realize that meat often does not appeal to the masses, but there are those who need and desire such a study. I hope to see it in print. May God bless you!
     
    #14 mjohnson7, Jun 6, 2005
  15. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    ===


    Thankyou very much!

    As said before, I taught junior high and high school students ,who were LEARNING DISABLED, Lang Arts and Social Studies for 35 years.

    In just one semester these challenged, and challenging, students learned MORE , eg, about Eastern Hemispheric History than does the average Christian in a lifetime learn about the Person Christ through hundreds and hundreds of tepid and superficial SS lessons.

    And I think that is criminal!

    Bill
     
    #15 UZThD, Jun 6, 2005
  16. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    UZThD,

    There are many here on the BB and on the College/Seminary thread who have an academic background. I suppose I have turned into an old Pharisee but it seems to me that the general depth of the discussion here is more . . . say, academic than some of the other threads.

    Having said that, and with electronic editing the way it is now; I for one would like to have some part and/or parcel in helping to edit the work WHEN it starts to come to fruition. We may need to talk about it off line. I will be the first to offer my services.

    As I have said, I have a small "writing gig." And I know that there are several on the BB/College-Seminary thread who are capable of doing editing work. Please feel free to call on us and let us use what we have gained.

    Just a thought!

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #16 Rhetorician, Jun 6, 2005
  17. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Bill,

    At the very least I too want an autographed copy.

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #17 Rhetorician, Jun 6, 2005
  18. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    Rhet:

    A kind offer, thanks.

    Friends:

    In my present understanding my questions are:

    1) Is there a need for it? (So I posted here and want to do a review of the literature of this genre , and subject, to see).

    I will in a couple of weeks post in this thread an outline of the subjects to get your advice.


    2) Does God want me to do it? (So, I pray and seek His face and examine my motives and talk with those who know Him and me).

    3) Can I get it published? (That doubt is looming over the project, but, I suppose it may be a sign of little faith to wonder about that issue...just don't know!)

    I agree with Paid that it would require a lot of work. The work is NOT to research the concepts, I have a fair grasp of them, but to express those ideas in usable format , in easily understood summaries*, and in terms simple to understand.

    But these concepts are so precious and so vital that if they need to be translated into the language of the non-theologian , if they need to be dressed in appealing illustrations and simple words , then I would diligently attend to the task of doing that.

    *However, I would, as said, want to have expansive end notes for those who wish more depth.

    There's no question, NO question, that I would like to try to write it. It gives me more satisfaction to think and talk and write about the Person of Christ than does any pastime or any possession or any person. I cannot conceive of any activity I would rather be doing than that.

    Bill G.

    [ June 07, 2005, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: UZThD ]
     
    #18 UZThD, Jun 7, 2005
  19. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    UZThD/Bill,

    I would for one want you to realize, as the Apostle Paul might say; this IS going to be as much work as your dissertation. It will be a DIFFERENT TYPE type of work. But, work of the same caliber and on the same level as when you got your doctorate.

    I just want you to also know, this will be your test of ability to write. There is a real artistry for the one who can take complex theological (or in my case rhetorical) concepts and put them in the vernacular of the "common man." If anyone can do it, I am persuaded that you can. It will be like cleaning out the swamp, up to your armpits in 'gators, and finding that the prime objective was to drain the swamp.

    This project really fits the PhD/ThD research doctorate model. One enters the room with the world-class scholars. He listens. He studies them. He studies with them. He learns their language. He produces a dissertaion approved by them.

    Then they let him in the club. From then on he works out of his "lifelong project (dissertation)." He researches, writes, and teaches out of this specialty from then forward; discovering and rediscovering and continuing to produce. Teaching becomes the side-line and not the main thing.

    I know that you know this; I am only rehearsing it for those who may not understand it.

    This is where I am almost exactly. That is why it does not seem needful or wise for me to do another doctorate, only to write amap (as much as possible). So, here you are with a similar delimma!?

    We will all pray for you and be here to help literally and/or metaphorically. And we will surely be praying for you.

    "Stay by the stuff!"

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #19 Rhetorician, Jun 7, 2005
  20. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    For consideration:

    Preliminary thoughts and outline with (just) examples of what might be covered in each unit.

    This is a survey of Christology intended for individual study , adult SS classes, or undergrad courses.

    Each unit should consist of several pages of text including objectives, Scriptures, simple to grasp explanatory comments, illustrations, discussion questions, and suggestions for application.

    Also, each unit will have several pages of endnotes which further amplify at a more advanced level that unit's topics of discussion. These might be used as guides for further reading, by SS teachers to develop lessons, by beginning theological students to grasp the issues in the literature.

    IMO, each unit's main text could be covered in a survey manner an 80 minute class (excluding endnotes). If so, there would be 18 classes of 80 min each.


    CHRIST: THE CENTER OF OUR FAITH

    1) Christ is called God by Isaiah, John, and Peter.

    (5 Scriptures studied)

    2) Christ is called God by Paul.

    (5 Scriptures studied)

    3) Christ is Son of God

    ( meanings of: "only Begotten ; "Son of God" ; "First Born")

    4) Christ is true God

    (all the fulness; God's form; "I AM"; kurios ; Yahweh)

    5) Christ is the Divine Revealer of God

    (The Angel of Yahweh; The Word; The Image of God , Col 1:15; The Exact Representation of God, Heb 1:3)

    6) Christ has the qualities of God

    (how attributes are thought to relate to Being ;eternality ; omniscience; omnipresence; omnipotence)

    7) Christ does divine works

    (creation ; sustaining universe ; receiving worship and service)

    8) Christ is a Person in the Trinity

    (meaning of God's unity ; meaning of Person ; Scriptures indicating the tri-unity of God ; inadequate views on God's tri-unity)

    9) Christ and the Father interact

    (mutual glorification ; the temporal submission of Christ ; the equality between the Father and the Son as indicated by texts referencing eternal relationships

    10) Christ and the Holy Spirit Interact

    ( the personality of the HS ; The Spirit and Christ when Christ was on earth ; the Spirit and the ascended Christ)

    11) Christ became Man to save

    (Elected One ; Lamb of God, meaning of redeem and propitiate ; Son of Man ; Second Adam ; High Priest ; Interecessor)

    12) Christ became Man to rule

    (Phil 2:9, 10 ; meaning of 'Messiah' ; the Kingdom)

    13) Christ became Man with no loss of deity

    (God's immutability ; Virginal conception ; incarnation is addition of servant nature, Phil 2:6-8.

    14) Christ though true Man is sinless

    (called a man ; limited human mind and will ; genuine testing ; complete victory ; perfect sacrifice)

    15) Christ is one Person acting through two natures

    ( inadequate views on His humaness and deity ; meaning of Person, meaning of nature ; why one Person ; examples of each nature experiencing and acting)

    16) Christ is Lord of the Church

    ( giving gifts and acting as Head)

    17) Christ is Lord of the future

    (personal eschatology as life after death ; millennial views )

    18) Christ is Lord of the Believer

    (dead, buried, and resurrected in Christ ; Christ in us)

    [ June 07, 2005, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: UZThD ]
     
    #20 UZThD, Jun 7, 2005
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