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PhD in Bible

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by lchemist, Jun 27, 2005.

  1. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Really now? I have never yet met a NT Ph.D. from Duke who could convincingly refute Barth, Tillich, Niebuhr & company. They just seem to grovel at their feet. On the other hand, I do know a number of guys who studied under Van Til at Westminster that can handle the whole company.

    Furthermore, I can’t see the superior intellectual qualities of these dudes. Tillich, I think, wrote to be obscure intentionally but he had nothing mentally superior. If you can handle the Calculus and quantum mechanics, these guys are a piece of cake. Is there some mystical and esoteric knowledge that I’m missing here? Please clue me in. If you’re looking for something really arcane and obscure, read Swedenborg. Old Kierregard is pretty murky and mystical at times too. Charles Williams and Rudolph Steiner are abstruse.

    BTW, thanks for your patient explanation; I do understand it but I just don’t believe it.
     
  2. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    I do! [​IMG]
     
  3. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    I have never yet met a NT Ph.D. from Duke who could convincingly refute Barth, Tillich, Niebuhr & company.

    True enough. But they have interacted with them. I agree that Van Til could have handled the whole bunch - and he would have done just that, interacting with them and reproving them where he saw fit. He would not have just said, "Oh these guys are just liberal reprobates; I'm going to ignore them."
     
  4. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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    Perhaps, because they are theologians, not biblical scholars. They are in related but different fields.

    So Paidagogos, which schools do you recommend?
     
  5. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    paidagogos,

    If I have offended you on any level-I am sorry. Please accept my apology. It was not my intention to offend only to engage.

    I pray for you that God's blessings would abide on you and all you do.

    "May your tribe increase," may many souls come into His Kingdom because of your work, and may your life glorify Christ.

    Once again I am truly sorry!

    sdg!

    rd
     
  6. Pastor Greg

    Pastor Greg New Member

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    You go me with Penn State. I didn't know they offered a PhD in OT. Which campus; main or another?
     
  7. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Perhaps, because they are theologians, not biblical scholars. They are in related but different fields.

    So Paidagogos, which schools do you recommend?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for asking. The problem is that I am somewhat disenchanted and critical of the whole American system in this field. Frankly, I would probably recommend none of those mentioned for the specifically stated purpose. For the pastor, evangelist, missionary, or Christian worker, any good solid Bible institute, Bible college, Christian college/university or seminary could be appropriate depending upon the intended ministry, the people, and various demographics. As I understand this question, we are exclusively discussing the best education for a Christian scholar who will research, work and teach at an advanced level. IMHO, the American system of theological education, possibly with some exceptions, does not prepare one for this. The American system is more geared toward methodology and applications rather than an academic discipline.

    The European model is more intellectual and academic. Additionally, the students are more serious and scholarly. They take their academics very sincerely. European scholars tend to be more intense and focused. They incline toward the rational over the feelings.

    Furthermore, I am not sure that one should pursue a degree in theology at all, especially if it entails the study of liberal deviant theologians. IMHO, it’s a waste of time. I would think an academic degree in a related field, such as Biblical languages, would be better. One can always read theology and philosophy. Here’s my idea for the making of a fine academic theologian:

    Undergraduate—strong liberal arts degree with breadth and academic rigor (I seriously recommend a heavy concentration in mathematics and the sciences since most theologians are naïve in these areas.)

    Graduate—masters in Biblical languages and/or related field with still some breadth of study at an advanced level

    Terminal degree with significant research in a theology-related field--this does not include necessarily investigation of minutiae or the study of some dead fellow’s system but it is a real pioneering advance of knowledge. Preferably, this would include study with some ground-breaking and imaginative scholar who has shown the ability to think creatively. A world-class scholar, as opposed to a hack with a doctorate, draws and outlines a new paradigm. The hack with a doctorate colors inside the lines someone else has drawn. Both have their functions.

    Along the way, I like the idea of both assistantships and fellowships providing both application and teaching along with time and opportunity for uninterrupted study.

    What schools do I recommend for this specific goal? None--stateside. I am partial to the University of Edinburgh, Free University of Amsterdam and UNISA. Oxford and Cambridge are okay. The German schools are highly reputed but their rationalistic theologies skew their academics such as archaeology. The rub is that even academics are prejudiced by our philosophical presuppositions. This is the reason for separatist isolationism among some Fundamentalists.

    Years ago, I was negotiating (I think the British call it supplicating) for a doctorate in the philosophy and history of education from the University of Nijmegen (a Roman Catholic university in the Netherlands) on the basis of work already done (research, publication, etc.). These Europeans are less hung up on formal course requirements and credit hours than Americans. They want to see what you can do independently. Show them you have achieved the requisite level of functioning and they will doctor you. I like that! Show me what you can do rather than meeting a lot of perfunctory requirements.

    Perhaps these scattered thoughts will generate some interesting discussion. I would be interested to learn if others agree with my basic ideas. Open for discussion and debate.
     
  8. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Rhetorician: Thank you for your kind, gentlemanly post. Apology accepted with all gravity and sincerity. I wish you the best as well. You do have insights to offer and perhaps correct my thinking. Don't let this incident hinder your debating my opinions. I will value your views.

    Friend, thank you again for your sweet spiritedness.
     
  9. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    paidagogos,

    I remain fraternally yours for the Kingdom's increase.

    sdg!

    rd
     
  10. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    paidagogos,

    If I may interject?

    This comment will revert back to the original question of this thread. If one is to do truly world class scholarship then three things can be considered:

    First; study with a world class scholar. If you can convince said scholar to take you on as a project. This might require that you sell yourself or your project idea to him/her. This scholar could be American or Continental.

    Second; study at a world class institution like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Yale, Tubingin, Vandy, Emory, etc. It is still my contention that America has a # of these.

    Three; come up with a brand new or seminal idea of your own. Develope it and then you will have your own lifelong "project." This is probably the hardest of the three to hit upon.

    Number two above is where you (paidagogos) and I would probably depart company opinion-wise. But, that is perfectly OK. I for one still believe that we have some outstandingly world class universities in the USA. Having said that, many of your observations and comments are true and carry a great deal of creedence.

    I was corrected by a loving brother the other day when I commented that if one choose the school, then s/he also choose the end product. I do concede that this is a somewhat simplistic view of things. What I meant is that the institution, profs, philosophy of education, opportunities for writing, teaching, etc. will be tossed like the dice. Then, the person will be led down paths from which they can never return. That is why, the choice of an academic terminal degree and/or institution is so vitally important and must be chosen with great care and leadership of our Lord.

    Thanks for allowing me the input and possibly hearing the words of an old man who has been down this road himself.

    sdg!

    rd
     
  11. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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    Thank you Paidagogos and Rhetorician the last posts were of high quality and very helpful. If you notice the subject of my question is not theology but biblical studies, so your posts were right on target.

    What do you think of a committed (and ecumenical)
    Baptist studying at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome? (http://www.biblico.it/index.html )
     
  12. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    I definitely would not recommend it for the study of theology. However, if you're studying the history of Roman Catholic theology or some obscure aspect of Roman Catholic church history, then it might not be a bad choice.
     
  13. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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  14. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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    I definitely would not recommend it for the study of theology. However, if you're studying the history of Roman Catholic theology or some obscure aspect of Roman Catholic church history, then it might not be a bad choice. [/QB][/QUOTE]

    No RC Theology or History,just Bible as in the following curriculum;

    1. Philological Section (8 semester courses):

    New Testament Greek (2 semesters: A-B)
    Biblical Hebrew (3 semesters: A-B-C)
    Biblical Aramaic (1 semester)
    One Ancient Near Eastern Language (e.g., Akkadian, Targumic Aramaic, Syriac, etc.) (2 semesters).

    2. Isagogic Section (5 semester courses):


    Biblical Archaeology and Geography
    History of the Old Testament
    History of the New Testament
    Textual Criticism
    Hermeneutics

    3. Exegetico-Theological Section (12 semester courses):

    Introduction to the Old Testament (1 course)
    Theology of the Old Testament (1 course)
    Old Testament Exegesis (4 courses)
    Introduction to the New Testament (1 course)
    Theology of the New Testament (1 course)
    New Testament Exegesis (4 courses)

    4. Seminars:


    Introductory Seminar in Methodology
    One seminar without paper
    One seminar with paper

    Final Examination


    The studies for the Licentiate are concluded with a Licentiate thesis, a major paper (which has a coefficient of 10) in which the student must demonstrate the level of his or her academic ability. This thesis takes the place of the regular examination for one of the courses in exegesis or biblical theology taught by a permanent professor of the Biblical Faculty, who is normally the director of the thesis.

    The content of this thesis is normally based on a significant point of exegesis or of biblical theology (a particular text or a theme). In addition to providing the status quaestionis of the topic the candidate should demonstrate his or her ability to develop a method of research and to arrive at a well-argumented and justified conclusion.

    After the Licentiate there is a year of preparation for the Doctorate, then the thesis and its defense and publication.

    Thes are some of the previous dissertations:

    Sept 12, 2004: Rev. Lanfranco FEDRIGOTTI, S.D.B.: Jesus of Nazareth, the Bridegroom of «My Church», the Bride. An Exegetical Study of Matt 9,15 and Its Nuptial Symbolism [extract] (Rome 2004, pp. 171).

    Nov 23, 2004: Rev. Luis SANCHEZ NAVARRO, D.C.J.M.: «Venid a mí» (Mt 11,28-30. El discipulado, fundamento de la ética en Mateo (Studia Teologica Matritensia 4; Facultad de Teología de San Dámaso, Madrid 2004, pp. 366).

    Jan 24, 2005: Rev. Maurizio MARCHESELLI: Il Risorto si manifesta in un evento e in un dialogo: Gv 21 come composizione letteraria unificata [extract] (Rome 2004, pp. 84).

    March 09, 2005: Rev. Theodore MASCARENHAS: The Missionary Function of Israel in Psalms 67, 96, and 117 ( Univeristy Press of America, Lanham, MD 2005, pp. XXVI+380).

    June 13, 2005: Rev. Cássio Murilo DIAS DA SILVA: Colui che manda la pioggia sulla faccia della terra [extract] (Rome 2005, pp. II+128).

    Oct 28, 2004: Rev. Aldo MARTIN: La tipologia adamica nella lettera agli Efesini (summa cum laude) – Moderator: ALETTI Jean-Noël, S.J.

    Dec 17, 2004: Filippo SERAFINI: L' alleanza levitica. Studio della berît di Dio con i sacerdoti letivi nell'Antico Testamento (magna cum laude) – Moderator: BOVATI Pietro, S.J.

    Apr 14, 2005: Rev. Carlo BROCCARDO: Fede e cristologia in Lc 4-9. Analisi narrativa dei personaggi minori (magna cum laude) – Moderator: ALETTI Jean-Noël, S.J.

    Apr 15, 2005: Rev. Ignacio CARBAJOSA PEREZ: Las características de la versión siríaca (Peshitta) de los libros 4° y 5° de salmos (Sal 90-150) (magna cum laude) – Moderator: PISANO Stephen, S.J.

    May 27, 2005: Rev. Cássio Murilo DIAS DA SILVA: Colui che manda la pioggia sulla faccia della terra (magna cum laude) – Moderator: SIMIAN-YOFRE Horacio, S.J.

    Jun 07, 2005: Rev. Antonio PORTALATIN: Temporal Oppositions as Hermeneutical Categories in the Epistle tothe Hebrews (magna cum laude) – Moderator: BEUTLER Johannes, S.J.
     
  15. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    The RCC has produced some of this generation's finest biblical scholars, Raymond Brown and Joseph Fitzmyer in particular.
     
  16. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    lchemist,

    I think it is fine to "study outside the (Baptist) fold."

    If you will check my educational credentials you will find that I have two advanced degrees from universities outside the "Baptist Circles." Some of my best learning and most challenging work has been done there. Also, some of my best acceptance as a "Brother in Christ."

    I am not sure that I would have been treated as well if I had been an Ecumenical type at the Baptist seminaries I have attended.

    I have a wide range of Ecumenical students and cross cultural students and the exposure did me well. In fact it is what I pride myslf in (if there is a good pride as such?).

    I suggest you look at doing it, but make sure you are secure in whom you are in The Faith and in Baptists' understandings.

    sdg!


    rd

    PS. By the by I did my dissertation in RC Thought.
     
  17. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    lchemist,

    I am confused?! Please help me to understand what you are saying or wanting to do?

    In the long post above you cited a long list of recent grad papers that the "Licentiate are concluded with a Licentiate thesis, a major paper." I gradutated with my doctorate from an Episcopal (read Anglican) school, The University of the South @ Sewanee (TN). They had a "Licentiate track" degree. My understanding is that it was for ordination. I am confused. Have I missed something in one of your prior posts? You are not wanting to be ordained into the RCC are you?

    If the Licentiate program is a type of Master's that is entry level for the doctorate (and it may very well be?), then why (or are you) considering doing that program. Please help me out here!

    The Penn State Program looks very good. But, as I look at it, it seems to be History "heavy" and Religious "light." The Religions and profs are like Hindu and Buddhist etc. et al. And it seems to also study "Religions" in the historical contexts. Just something to consider.

    I will tell you one thing. If that is the degree and/or program you want--you will not have a problem finding a job teaching.

    My two cents worth.

    sdg!

    rd
     
  18. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    lchemist,

    Just a short follow up.

    I went to the web page. I believe that you have found is an RCC university/seminary for men who want to be licensed and ordained to the RCC priesthood. Then they can go on and earn a doctorate in the RCC tradition so they can teach in the RCC seminaries and colleges.

    Either way, get back to me and let me know "whatz up!"

    sdg!

    rd
     
  19. Humblesmith

    Humblesmith Member

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    Just my two cents worth.....

    I don't know exactly what you guys are looking for, but I might suggest you consider Southern Evangelical Seminary. One of the main thrusts of the school is an apologetic that effectively answers people like Barth, and anyone else who deviates from historic Christian teachings. It teaches not just that a teaching has deviated, but how & where it deviated, and where the teaching has led, then provides an answer that defends historic Christianity in a scholarly way. You don't study the problems just to learn the problems...you study them so that you can prevent further deviations, and win those who've deviated back to the straight and narrow.

    What you'll find is that following 'some dead guy's system' is neither good nor bad.....it depends on which dead guy you're talking about. But following some 'new cutting edge' teaching has almost always led to doctrinal problems and deviations. There is nothing new under the sun, and the modern heresies have almost always been dealt with in the past, by one of those dead guys.

    At the risk of sounding like a southerner, SES has the best theology/apologetic/philosophy program that I've seen anywhere. I've not seen another that can touch it. For example, I know of no other school that teaches you how to use the Bible and Aquinas to refute the modern followers of Kierkegaard and Bultmann, and win them back to Christ.

    Look into it.
     
  20. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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