Repenting of sin-Once saved always saved

Anyone who teaches that belief in the doctrine of eternal security is necessary for salvation is teaching a gospel VERY different than the Gospel of the Bible and it is our responsibility as the people of God to openly rebuke such persons and distance ourselves from them for they are enemies of the cross of Christ.

And it is also alarming that anyone could possibly be a pastor of a Baptist church and yet have so very little education that they could confuse the doctrine of conditional security with the doctrine of salvation by works or anything other than grace and grace alone. It is true that some heretics do believe in both conditional security and salvation by works, but these are two entirely separate doctrines and any Christian who has not yet learned that needs to begin studying theology at the most elementary level, and such individuals are VERY far from being ready for any position of teaching or leadership.

 

When all fails use the ad hominem attack (by innuendo of course) to bolster your own view by an oblique accusation of sin on my part.

One can always widen the scope of any given Scripture and make the claim that someone quoted it out of context.

Nevertheless concerning that context by my own experience of living this context:

I am born of God and I do not make a practice of sin, I cannot make a practice of sin because I am born of God. The Scripture plainly says that whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. A proof is that it gives me joy to purify myself through the Word of God. In fact nothing in the expanded scope of the Scripture you quoted changes anything I said but only adds to it. Let me repeat it:

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I have absolute confidence that I am a child of God because the Spirit witnesses to my spirit that I am so.

I am now (presently, at this moment) a son of God
I believe John 3:2 with unwavering faith (currently, presently) and have eternal life (not sometimes life).

I have absolute certainty that when He appears and I am resurrected, I shall see Him as He is and be like Him.

Not only myself but the Apostle John who was commissioned by the Lord Himself to give this message of absolute certainty to all those who believe the witness He has given; that we may know that we have eternal life (not maybe-eternal life).

And although you don't realize it Craig that includes yourself.

Throw away the writings of the Church Fathers and focus upon the testimony of Jesus Christ and His Apostles in the Word of God.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

In verse 27, Jesus is not making a condition of eternal life but describing the nature of those who believe in Him that He has made His sheep.

I (HankD) am His sheep I hear his voice I know Him and I follow Him because it is my nature to do so. And that nature was implanted within in me and will abide forever because my Forever God did it to me.

Have I gone astray on occasion, oh yes, when my old nature revived, but just as He gave another infallible promise in another place he came after me and brought me back to the fold.

But, I did not cease to be one of His sheep, one of His straying sheep but one of His sheep nonetheless.

Eternal life is the unending life of God infused within me, not life today but maybe not tomorrow.

We are a dichotomy of flesh and spirit (sheep and pig) if we do not mortify the flesh or let it jump back to life we may very well sin unto death and go home to be with the Lord (as Paul testified to the carnal sinning Corinthian Christians, "many of you sleep") or "go halt" with no assurance or become sickly and ineffective.

Craig, my brother, I'm sorry but in my estimation, I feel sad for you that someone has robbed you of that unspeakable joy of the Lord and you cannot say with certainty that you will spend eternity with Him which eternity He purchased for you with His blood.

It IS your birthright (secondbirth) and someone has robbed you.

HankD

 

RightFromWrong,

I did NOT say, nor do I believe, that we are not saved unless we NEVER sin. Please don’t accuse me of saying what I did not say. What I did say is this,

Notice that John, not I, wrote, “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” John says, therefore, that a person who is born of God cannot sin and I wrote that John tells us that people who are born again no longer sin. Hint: If a person who is born again cannot sin, a person who is born again no longer sins, because he “cannot sin.” That is what John says in his first epistle. I did not interpret what he says; I simply said what he said. If you don’t like my wording, his will do just fine, “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

I don’t know whether or not you are familiar with the Baptist literature on 1 John, but most Baptists interpret John to mean that those individuals who are born again cannot practice sin as a continuous thing, and they base this interpretation on the Greek construction of the sentence where the Greek present tense in the active voice and the indicative mood is used. A very important point here is that this is the same Greek tense that John uses elsewhere when writing of the relationship between belief and eternal life (he more often uses the present active participle), and these Baptists greatly emphasize the continuous aspect of the present tense in 1 John 3:9 but almost totally deny the continuous aspect of the present tense when it is found in the verb translated believe in reference to eternal life because they know very well that the Greek tense shoots their eternal life argument to pieces and they are not honest enough with themselves to admit their own very serious contradiction, a contradiction that totally disappears when one takes the Greek sentence at face value as Christians did for 1500 years.

Personally, I am not really all that sure just exactly what John meant in 1 John 3.9, I only know what he wrote,

9. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

One thing, however, is without dispute—John believed that when a man was born again, a very radical change took place in his life with respect to sin, and not just in an imputed manner, but in an imparted manner, so that he was not just righteous inwardly, but also outwardly.

7. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8. the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
9. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
(NASB, 1995)

And notice that I used the word “imparted.” Our righteousness, both our imputed righteousness and our practical righteousness which is imparted to us by God comes to us by grace through faith. It is NOT a work on our part, but a work on God’s part, but the work is both inward and outward. This is very elementary theology and it is absolutely shocking that TCassidy could be a Baptist pastor and not know these things—and you should know them yourself assuming that you have been a Christian for more than a short while.

 

When all fails use the ad hominem attack (by innuendo of course) to bolster your own view by an oblique accusation of sin on my part.

One can always widen the scope of any given Scripture and make the claim that someone quoted it out of context.

Nevertheless concerning that context by my own experience of living this context:

I am born of God and I do not make a practice of sin, I cannot make a practice of sin because I am born of God. The Scripture plainly says that whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. A proof is that it gives me joy to purify myself through the Word of God. In fact nothing in the expanded scope of the Scripture you quoted changes anything I said but only adds to it. Let me repeat it:

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I have absolute confidence that I am a child of God because the Spirit witnesses to my spirit that I am so.

I am now (presently, at this moment) a son of God
I believe John 3:2 with unwavering faith (currently, presently) and have eternal life (not sometimes life).

I have absolute certainty that when He appears and I am resurrected, I shall see Him as He is and be like Him.

Not only myself but the Apostle John who was commissioned by the Lord Himself to give this message of absolute certainty to all those who believe the witness He has given; that we may know that we have eternal life (not maybe-eternal life).

And although you don't realize it Craig that includes yourself.

Throw away the writings of the Church Fathers and focus upon the testimony of Jesus Christ and His Apostles in the Word of God.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

In verse 27, Jesus is not making a condition of eternal life but describing the nature of those who believe in Him that He has made His sheep.

I (HankD) am His sheep I hear his voice I know Him and I follow Him because it is my nature to do so. And that nature was implanted within in me and will abide forever because my Forever God did it to me.

Have I gone astray on occasion, oh yes, when my old nature revived, but just as He gave another infallible promise in another place he came after me and brought me back to the fold.

But, I did not cease to be one of His sheep, one of His straying sheep but one of His sheep nonetheless.

Eternal life is the unending life of God infused within me, not life today but maybe not tomorrow.

We are a dichotomy of flesh and spirit (sheep and pig) if we do not mortify the flesh or let it jump back to life we may very well sin unto death and go home to be with the Lord (as Paul testified to the carnal sinning Corinthian Christians, "many of you sleep") or "go halt" with no assurance or become sickly and ineffective.

Craig, my brother, I'm sorry but in my estimation, I feel sad for you that someone has robbed you of that unspeakable joy of the Lord and you cannot say with certainty that you will spend eternity with Him which eternity He purchased for you with His blood.

It IS your birthright (secondbirth) and someone has robbed you.

HankD </font>[/QUOTE]Hank,

You are totally confused regarding several things here.

• The difference between the quality of eternal life and one’s relationship to it

• The idea that a person who believes in conditional security is any less sure about their future in heaven than you are

• The idea that a person who believes in conditional security would have any less joy than a person who believes in eternal security

• The absolute holiness of God and the absolute sinfulness of sin

I have absolutely no doubt about my salvation or my destiny because Jesus Christ is my Lord and my savior and he promises to never leave me. I have been a Christian for a long time, and I have seen God perform miracle after miracle in people’s lives, and I know that He is more than able to keep me. Yes, I still have my free will, but my will is to serve my savior with all of my being till I die. But unlike many Baptists, my faith is not based upon a faulty interpretation of the Bible as a consequence of a faulty hermeneutic; my faith is based upon an accurate interpretation of the Bible as a consequence of a highly accurate hermeneutic that I know for a fact from many intensive years of Bible study to be true to the Word of God.

God is no respecter of persons, and the very same truths that he has allowed me to learn he has allowed others to learn throughout the entire history of His Church. I have taught students from all over the world and I have found that there is no place on earth nor any place in history where the truth of God’s Word has not been made available by God to those honestly and humbly searching for the truth. John Calvin did not stumble upon a truth that had been hidden from man for 1500 years; he stumbled and fell into confusion and error and has taken millions with him. But for those who humble themselves before God and rely upon Him to teach them as they carefully and prayerfully read and study His Word there is no cause for stumbling, but much cause for rejoicing as the Holy Spirit interacts with them in a very personal and dynamic way making known to them the truth, and with that truth a life that is free from the bonds of sin and full of the joy of the Lord.

 

RightFromWrong,

You quoted one of my sentences that was very clearly and precisely worded by a highly educated man and you called it “jiberish” and implied that you could not understand it. Having misspelled the word “gibberish,” you then wrote,

"First of what the heck is Conditional security never saw that in the Bible ? How about salvation by works ????"

This sentence should have read,

"First off, what the heck is conditional security? I never saw that in the Bible!"

You followed your sentence with a fragment,

“How about salvation by works ????”

This fragment, as it stands, is unintelligible.

***Personal insult removed***

Very much of the New Testament, especially the writings of Paul, is written in highly complex and very lengthy sentences (Eph. 1:3-14 in the Greek New Testament is a good example—the entire passage is one highly complex sentence with one primary clause and a multitude of subordinate clauses that modify the primary clause). The American Standard Version maintains the structural integrity of the Greek sentence,

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
Eph 1:5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved:
Eph 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Eph 1:8 which he made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
Eph 1:9 making known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him
Eph 1:10 unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say,
Eph 1:11 in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will;
Eph 1:12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ:
Eph 1:13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation, - in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God's own possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Most other translations chop it up into three or more sentences, the result of which is that subordinate clauses become primary clauses and no longer modify the true primary clause, causing the primary clause to be distorted along with the subordinate clauses that are changed to primary clauses. Translators do this because many English speaking people have poor reading skills and are unable to accurately understand highly complex and lengthy English sentences. The bottom line here is that in order to read and understand an accurate translation of the Bible it is necessary for the reader to develop excellent reading skills. It takes time and effort, but it is highly rewarding not only when reading the Bible and understanding things that you were missing, but also in reading other literature and fully understanding it. May our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ richly bless you in your efforts.



[ August 24, 2005, 04:36 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

Craig, The one who cannot sin (is not capable of sin) is what Paul calls the "new man". He cannot sin because he is born of God.

However, the old nature (the flesh), resides with me and constantly wars against the Spirit-nature which resides within as well.

This is why we are told to "crucify" or "mortify" the flesh along with its desires and lusts.

If I have not mortified the flesh and purify myself through dealing with the leading of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God then I will suffer the consequence because I (as an integrated person) cannot sin wilfully pursuing the things of the flesh without the dire consequences of which consequence the ultimate after exhausting His patience is physical death (the sin unto death).

1 Corinthians 11
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

He gives us time in sanctification but His patience has a limit.

NKJV Revelation 2
20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.
22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.
23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

It is evident that in the world today there are at least three kinds of sinning "Christians".

1) Babes in Christ, carnal and yet weak, in the flesh. And in my experirnce, there are many of these who have been Christians for many years!

2) Those who should know better.

3) pretenders.

The first two will receive at His hand proportionate chastisement for whom the Lord loves He chastises and rebukes.

Luke 12
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Think about it.

We all know where those characterized in # 3 are going.

HankD

 

Hank wrote,

The purpose of crucifixion was to put the victim to death. Mortify means to kill. Dead men don’t sin.

1. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2. May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7. for he who has died is freed from sin.
8. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9. knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13. and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16. Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18. and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21. Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22. But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (NASB, 1995)

The message of Romans 6 is that Christ died unto sin once and we were baptized into his death and we need to take God’s word for it by faith.

 

Hank wrote,

Yes, it does.

4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. (NASB, 1995)

 

Hebrews 6:4-6 correctly interpreted.

Dr E.R. Campbell in his "A commentary of HEBREWS Based on the Greet New Testament" has the following to say on 6:4-6. I am leaving out the words that are written in the Greek. Don't know how to type them.)

4. "For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gifts, and having been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,"

The word order in our translation follows the order in the Greek test. The noun translated "impossible" means that God is not able, it is not possibsle for Him, holy and righteous as He is, to renew those who continue in a state of rebellious unbelief. The writer is not speaking of all the Hebrew believers in this verse, but of particular individuals, some who had professed to believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.

He refers to these Hebrews as once "having been enlightened". The participle translated "having been enlightened" is in the aorist tense and passive voice, which means that someone in the past had taught them the elementary principles of the message of Christ. This means that they have been enlightened, and illuminated their minds.

As we look at the whole scenario of these Hebrews, in light of all the information we have in the New Testament, we wonder what they really believed about Jesus beyond that fact that He is the prophesied Messiah. How many of them recognized that He died for their sins according to the Scripture (Isa. 53:5-6)?

It appears to us that the first principles of Christ, which have been preached to them, primarily dealt with His Messiahship, rather then His redemptive ministry, the Cross. The fact that they had this initial elementary message preached to them does not necessarily mean that they were trusting Jesus Christ for salvation from sin (1Cor. 15:2-4; Acts 21:20).
Next, we are told that these Hebrews had also once "tasted", sensed the taste of, and perceived the heavenly gift. It appears that the heavenly gift mentioned in this verse refers to either God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. Since the following phrase involves the Holy Spirit, the heavenly gift apparently refers to Jesus Christ (1Cor. 15:49; 2Cor. 9:15; Rom. 5:15; Eph. 1:22).

These Hebrews had tasted of the incipient truth regarding Jesus Christ. They had been introduced to the things taught in the forepart of Acts. They had these scant fragments of truth, only tasted. They came to the brink of knowing Jesus Christ, but in the process of time, fell away from the little truth which had been presented to them.

The particular Hebrew referred to in these verses had recognized that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah. This was a head-trip based on the evidence, but they never ingested Him as the free and gratuitous gift of God who died to save them from sin. Many of them had receded from even the elemental truth which they had been taught.

Instead of recognizing the real purpose of the death of Jesus Christ, they were still engrossed in the Mosaic Law and it sacrifices (Gal. 4:25).
Furthermore, these early Hebrew are referred to as "having been made partakers of the Holy Spirit." The Greek verb translated "having been made" is in the aorist tense and passive voice, which means that in the past, God had made them partakers of the Holy Spirit.

The Greek noun translated "partakers" is derived from the compound verb which literally means "to hold with", "to share" and "to have a partner relation" to the Holy Spirit. Apart from the prior and preparatory working of the Holy Spirit, the Hebrews, where were disgracing Jesus Christ, would not have originally even recognized Him as the Messiah (2Cor. 3:14-18). We must keep in mind, the language used in conjunction with the Holy Spirit in this verse does not indicate that the Spirit was actually in the Hebrews description in vs. 6 (Rom. 8-9).

The language used in this verse indicates that "in the past" God had related, via His Spirit, to the particular Hebrews who where now crucifying Jesus Christ and exposing Him to open shame. These were Hebrews whom the Spirit convinced that Jesus is the Messiah, but who at that time were unaware that Christ had died for their sins, and who were still engaged in keeping the Law.

5. "and having tasted of the good word of God and the powers of the coming age."
In verse 4, Paul says that they had tasted the heavenly gifts, and in this verse he uses the same participle to say that had tasted the good Word of God. What we have already said about the meaning of this participle applies to this verse; namely, that they had been introduced to, acquainted with, and sampled the good Word of God.

Before we continue to discuss further the meaning of the closely knit context in verses 4 through 6, we need to acknowledge that it consist of a series of four participles, the first one being preceded by the adverb "once". We interpret this to mean that the adverb "once" applies to all the participles; i.e. they had once been enlightened; they had once tasted of the heavenly gift; they had once been partakers of the Holy Spirit and had once tasted of the good word of God and the powers of the coming age.

It is extremely important that we consider what was once, as recorded in the forepart of Acts, taught to these Hebrews who believed that Jesus is the Messiah. It appears to us the elementary principles which they were taught go back to the early days when thousands were acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah in Jerusalem and Judea (Acts 2:41; 4:4; 6:7). Back at this point in time; there is every reason to believe that these Hebrews continued to keep the Mosaic Law. In fact, at that point in time, the only thing which would have deterred them from offering the sacrifices of the Law would have been a clear understanding that Christ's death had fulfilled these - that He had died for their sin (Acts 21:20; Gal. 4:25). We have no reason to think that any or many of these Hebrews clearly comprehended the fact that Jesus Christ's death on the Cross fulfilled and replaced the Levitical offerings.

It appears to us that the Epistle to the Hebrews was probably written thirty years after what is recorded in the first chapters of Acts took place. This means that what is written in this epistle covers a span of some thirty years. In the foregoing paragraph, we suggest that the elementary word of Christ refers to what was taught them in the first chapters of Acts. This was a time when the Messianic Kingdom was being offered to the nation of Israel. It was a period of time prior to the Church ministry of the Apostle Paul. In other words, it was a time when the truth taught related to Kingdom and not the Church, the Body of Christ, of which we are members.

Now, looking at the Book of Hebrews from the writer's perspective, we need to recognize that dramatic changes took place between what was taught in the first part of Acts and beyond the last part of Acts. During this time, the Messianic Kingdom was rejected by Israel (Acts 7:15-20). Saul of Tarsus was miraculously saved and appointed the Apostle of the Church with a new message and name (Acts 9:3-19; 13:9: Eph. 3:2-9). Peter spent a great deal of time with Paul, highly respected him, and read what he wrote (Gal. 1:18; 2:11-21; 2 Peter 3:15-16). This mutual relationship, plus insight into what was written by the Spirit (Isa. 53:5-6; Matt 26:28), leads to the conclusion - Paul and Peter had a common salvation message based on the Cross - it is by Grace through faith (1 Cor. 15:3-4; 1 Peter 1:18-21).

Lest some may think that we have strayed from the verse before us, Hebrews 6:5, let me affirm, our diverting has been for a definite reason. First, we recognize that after Israel rejected the Messianic Kingdom in Acts, chapter 7, God revealed a new organism, the Church, the Body of Christ, through which He would have a spiritual relationship with His people. The apostle through whom God revealed the truth for the Church was Paul. His ministry as primarily directed toward the Gentiles and the Jews in their midst. On the other hand, Peter's ministry was primarily directed toward the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea; however, his opportunity to minister to them was almost nil (Acts 9:27-30). This could be cited as a good reason why he wrote the epistle to them.

In view of the context, we interpret the statement, "having tasted the good word of God," as primarily referring to the Kingdom message with both its present and future miracles. The gospel of the earthly Messianic Kingdom and miracles are inseparable (Matt. 10:7-8).
6. "and having fallen away, to renew them again unto repentance, while they crucify again to themselves the Son of God, and are exposing Him to open shame."

The aorist participle translated "having fallen away" may also be translated "havening fallen beside" or "defected from". The Greek infinitive translated "renew" may also be translated "to restore". The Greek noun translated "repentance" manes "a change of mind, thinking" and subsequent actions.

Summarizing, those who have been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gifts (Christ), who have been made partakers of the Spirit, and who have tasted of the Word of God and miracles, if after they have done these things they fall away and defect, it is "impossible" to renew or restore them unto repentance or a change of mind while the continue crucifying Christ and continue exposing Him to disgraceful public shame.

Verses 4-6 often erroneously cited to prove that a believer can lose his salvation. As we have explained, the language used in verses 4-5 speaks only of what have been made available and offered to these people, not of what they actually possessed. Furthermore, we have observed that this happened during the offer of the Messianic Kingdom, before the Church Truth was received.

 

That is an interesting commentary but it relies heavily on an argument concerning the societal conditions at that time. I've always had trouble with this passage because, although I don't believe in OSAS, I also don't believe that once you reject Christ and turn your back on Him you can never go back.

Personally, I think a much more straightforward passage is John Chapt. 15. This is so clear it almost doesn't require interpretation but I'll add my understanding.
**********************************************
Jhn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Jhn 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Jhn 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Jhn 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
***********************************************
I believe that the words "abide in Christ" are critical to understanding what salvation is all about. It's not about walking down the aisle. It's not about praying the sinner's prayer. Those things do have their place but primarily it's about establiching a meaningful, lasting relationship with Jesus Christ which is evident in our life. Jesus says that the fruits of such a relationship are all important in this passage of scripture.

First, He says that His deciples (presumably including Judas) are clean (saved) through the word He has spoken to them. They are saved. He then goes on to say that He expects them to bring forth much fruit if they ABIDE in Him. If they do not ABIDE in Him they will be cast into the fire. It is very clear to me that the Lord is saying that they will have lost their salvation and will be cast into Hell.

This is reiterated when Christ says that if they keep His commandments they will ABIDE in His love. Does anyone here believe that if we are not in the love of Christ we will go to Heaven? No. We will incur His wrath.

 

JackRUS wrote,

Dear brother, who is E. R. Campbell? I am familiar with many hundreds of Christian authors and scholars but I have never heard of E. R. Campbell? I have 27 commentaries on Hebrews in my personal library and none of them make any reference to an E. R. Campbell or his commentary. Do you perhaps know E. R. Campbell’s full name and the name of the publisher of his commentary?

As for the commentary itself, it is so extremely brief that it makes no mention at all of most of the data that is pertinent to the interpretation of that Epistle. John Owen’s commentary on Hebrews comprises seven volumes but it is so old and outdated that it is mostly an historical curiosity. One of the very finest recent commentaries on the Epistle to the Hebrews that offers a good discussion on the most pertinent issues for the correct exegesis of that epistle is the volume by Philip Edgcumbe Hughes. Although he believes in eternal security, he is aware of and discusses in detail the language in Heb. 6:4-6 that poses very serious problems for the eternal security view. He is also familiar with the other prominent commentators on Hebrews and quotes them and discusses their points of view.

One thing, however, is virtually certain—and that is that Paul was not the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews because the language and style are very different from the other writings we have by Paul. During the 2nd and 3rd centuries the Western Church mostly ignored the Epistle to the Hebrews, probably because the author was unknown and because chapter 6:4-6 offered no possibility of repentance to those Christians who sinned willfully after they were baptized (The interpretation that those who fell away were Christians who had been baptized was the unanimous interpretation until the 16th century due to the use of the first century liturgical expression for baptism being one of the descriptions used to describe those who fell away. Other first century liturgical expressions for partaking of the Eucharist and the laying on of hands by the clergy are also used in this passage to describe those who fell away making it extremely difficult to interpret these individuals as being not yet born again, and of course, for this reason very many Baptists argue that they were born again Christians, but their falling away was not from Christ, but from their position in Christ or some such thing). During the 4th century this epistle came into general acceptance by the churches but the authorship of the epistle remained subject to dispute and it has continued to be subject to dispute ever since. Calvin was sure that Paul could not have written it and suggested that either Luke or Clement wrote it, and these two possibilities were mentioned by Origen. A more likely author would be Barnabas, and Tertullian attributed the epistle to him.

 

Just a question or two:
How can a person "undo" something God did?
How can a person decide which sin is "bad" enough to not deny myself a "second chance"?
How can a person be so non-Baptist on a section of this site that says "Baptist only"?

 

True, but Romans Chapters 7-8 teaches that the law of sin is yet present in the life of the believer:

Even in crucifixion it takes time to die, It's not like hanging or stoning, it's much slower.
Some die quicker than others.

Nevertheless the law of sin is either always active to some degree or another or can be fully revived in which case physical death is a definite possibility.

NKJV Romans 7
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

NKJV Romans 8
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

The object of suffering with Him is our glorification, not our salvation, eternal life is just that, eternal.

Those children of God who have walked after the flesh (even though doing "religious" deeds) will suffer loss of reward.

NKJV 1 Corinthians 3
9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I believe in most cases only God knows the true Christian practicing "dead (or worthless) works" (post salvation) from the "tares" producing those same dead works without salvation. My opinion here.

HankD

[ August 25, 2005, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

http://www.pilkingtonandsons.com/campbell.htm

HankD