Is it really SIN to be angry with God ?

RightFromWrong · Aug 8, 2005

Our Pastor said yesterday in his sermon that it was wrong to be angry at God even though he has been at times. He said just as it was wrong to be angry with people it was even more wrong to be angry at God.

I'm sorry but I disagreed and here is why. And I will be talking to him this week about it.

1) I have yet to find a Bible verse that said that was true. That it was a SIN to be angry at God. If you do please let me know.

2) Many great saints were angry at God, questioning God is a form of anger whether we admit it or not. Questioning means one lacks FAITH, " Without Faith it is impossible to please God " David, Samuel, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Job, Jeremiah, Peter, and Paul all questioned God and even were angry with him.

3) Unlike a person who may never know you are angry with them, You can't fool God he knows all your thoughts and wants us to be HONEST with him.Even if those thoughts are ones of Questioning, denial, anger, whatever. You can't fool God and he wants you to be real with him.

4) God himself gave us the emotion of anger for
a reason. Anger is the result of FEELINGS of INJUSTICE. So when we feel we have been " Wronged " we NATURALLY get angry, of course righteous anger produces right motivations and actions. We all FEEL God has wronged us at times, even though he really hasn't. Since his ways are greater than our ways. But I think we have all felt that way. Just like a personal relationship we may FEEL someone has wronged us but if we looked at their side of the story and knew what was really going on our perception may not be the way we thought it was.

5) Whenever a person suffers loss, there are several stages one usually goes through in order to come out of the experence " Healthy " denial, anger , bargaining, depression, acceptance and motivation to make good out of the bad.

6) If we allow ourselves to believe that it is wrong to be angry with God we will stay in the stage of denial. We will go through life " Acting " like everything is fine when in reality we are still inwardly questioning God and most likely not having a close relationship with him because of it. Not only that we will not be open to understanding others who are questioning God, since we will feel they are in Sin. So they need to get over it.

7) I could never tell someone who had multiple losses in their life whether that be physical, finacial, or relational, that they were WRONG for being angry at God. I would hope I would have compassion enough to help them through it.

I am sure God is big enough not to get his feelings hurt when we question him or get angry at him in other ways. I think HE can handle it and would rather have us be honest so we can move on. Being angry at God is SIN. I don't think so.

Thoughts anyone ?

[ August 08, 2005, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: RightFromWrong ]

Rachel · Aug 9, 2005

I am sure God is big enough not to get his feelings hurt when we question him or get angry at him in other ways. I think HE can handle it and would rather have us be honest so we can move on.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Being angry at God is SIN. I don't think so.
Click to expand...

Is it sin to be angry at God? I really don't know. I know I have been several times, and I have even yelled at Him some.

DHK · Aug 9, 2005

Romans 9:20-21 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Does the creature ever have the right to complain or be angry at the creator who created him?
I think not!

We are commanded:
In all things give thanks.
Rejoice evermore.
Praise him always.

With commands such as these how can there ever be any room for anger against the Creator?
DHK

RightFromWrong · Aug 9, 2005

Yes Job said the same thing. Job questioned God and God answered him. If Job had never questioned God he would have never gotten an answer.

It still isn't wrong to question God, to cry out WHY ? To tell him how we feel. But it may be wrong to not wait for an answer or not be willing to listen to God. How long that takes is between each individual and God.

Yes we should give thanks in ALL things. That is the goal for sure. The Bible is also clear that we should be perfect just as our father in heaven is perfect, and we should be conformed to the image of his son. ALL goals, all yet to be perfected.

RightFromWrong · Aug 9, 2005

I often wonder if someone who says he always rejoices and never questions God, how they would respond if they loss 2 children and a spouse all in 3 months I knew someone who did and they questioned God.

I have been through hell before I was a Christian and it wasn't much easier after. And even though I questioned God and wanted to walk away and have nothing to do with Christians or God. God wouldn't allow me, so after 6 years of hardship that he has allowed I am back on track. But I have to admit it wasn't easy and I didn't have the best responses at times ( most times ) I never doubted my salvation but I did just want to go home. And I was mad at God for ALLOWING such pain. Especially since it all didn't make sense and still doesn't.

Joseph_Botwinick · Aug 9, 2005

RFW,

I don't know about the other saints you mentioned, but I think if you look at God's response to Job, I think it is clear that God was not impressed with his anger, and even thought that Job was wrong for being angry. As you read it, you will see that God sort of puts Job through the ringer for his arrogance against God, and I believe Job even ends up repenting in the end. Those who have not sinned have no need of repentance.

Joseph Botwinick

TexasSky · Aug 9, 2005

Actually,

I can see right off the barrell your Pastor is on shaky biblical ground. You said, He said just as it was wrong to be angry with people

Ephesians 4:26 says, Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

So the bible clearly states that anger, itself, is not sinful. It is how we handle anger.

Children get angry with parents. Parents don't like that, but we love them anyway.

God is our parent.

The difference is - God never provokes us to wrath, no matter what we may think. Human parents often do provoke our children to it.

Dr. Smith used to say, "If you are angry with your parents on earth, you tell them. If you are angry with God, tell Him. He already knows, but He is waiting for you to open the dialogue."

RightFromWrong · Aug 9, 2005

OK I just talked to my Pastor, who by the way isn't on shakey ground, he is one of the soundest Pastors I know and compassionate to boot.

Anyway I think after talking we both agreed that it isn't sin to QUESTION God, but it is when we lack faith in what he is doing in our lives. Do we question God due to the INJUSTICE ( thats ok ) or are we Questioning and getting mad at God for SELFISH motives. I find I get more mad at God and people due to INJUSTICE. Hinting from my screen name RightFromWrong I tend to see things black and white. I want things to be fair for everyone.

I guess it boils down to the verse " Be angry but sin not " its what we do with that anger that is sin. But I would never tell anyone not to question God or to express their TRUE feelings to him even if that feeling be anger. I would advice them that there needs to be healing and a better understanding of who God is and his sovereignty in their lives. It would also be my prayer that more Christians would have more compassion to those hurting, and not try to " FIX " all their problems with a quick Bible verse or comment that they shouldn't " FEEL " that way, but that we would help them through the process.

Artimaeus · Aug 9, 2005

Being angry at God is a sin.

In order to be angry at God you must believe that He has done or allowed something wrong, otherwise, why would you be angry at Him.

Asking God a question is not the same thing as questioning His character. When you say, (in anger at Him) "Why, God, did you allow this thing to happen?" you are saying that He messed up or isn't fair or being unjust.

Gen 18:25 ...Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

When you are angry at God, you are blaming Him for something and He is guilty of nothing.

God is right, all of the time, and when you question that, you are wrong all of the time. Quit trying to rationalize and bend God's character to lessen your error.

RightFromWrong · Aug 9, 2005

Artimaeus guess you never have had any tragedy in your life ? Think you are missing the point.

Explain the verse

Ephesians 4:26 says, Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

Joseph_Botwinick · Aug 9, 2005

Does that verse say anything about being angry at God?

It is wrong to be angry at God. God is right all the time. Take a real good look at God's response to Job's anger directed toward him, and tell me how you would characterize his response?

Joseph Botwinick

Joseph_Botwinick · Aug 9, 2005

1 Then Job replied to the LORD :
2 "I know that you can do all things;
no plan of yours can be thwarted.

3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?'
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.

4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.'

5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.

6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes."
Click to expand...

Job 42:1-6

Tell me. If there was nothing wrong with Job's anger toward God, then why is he repenting in dust and ashes in this passage?

Joseph Botwinick

RightFromWrong · Aug 9, 2005

Joseph_Botwinick

I see where you are comming from, but reality is that when someone is going through tremendous pain in their life especially a Christian and they are angry at God or questioning him. The last thing you should do is tell them they are sinning and how dare they question God and throw a bunch of Bible verses at them or try to tell them but hey look what you do have Ect. Ect.

All I am saying is God KNOWS our feelings even if that feeling is anger. You try to hide a feeling from God and see if it works. I have yet to meet anyone who didn't question or get angry at God at some point in their life. If they say they haven't they are lying.Its what one does with that anger that becomes sin.

AGAIN God wants us to be honest with him. You cannot grow spiritually heathy if you can not do that. You will just live in denial and go through the motions without any real joy. I know I've been there.

RightFromWrong · Aug 9, 2005

" 5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you. "

Boy I wish I could have that experence ! most of the time I get NO answers from God and wonder where he went and why didn't he save me from harm or give me some answers to WHY I was going through such and such ?

Joseph_Botwinick · Aug 9, 2005

The LORD Speaks
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said:
2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?

3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?

6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-

7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels [a] shouted for joy?

8 "Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,

9 when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,

10 when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,

11 when I said, 'This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt'?

12 "Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,

13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?

14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.

15 The wicked are denied their light,
and their upraised arm is broken.

16 "Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in the recesses of the deep?

17 Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death ?

18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.

19 "What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?

20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?

21 Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!

22 "Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail,

23 which I reserve for times of trouble,
for days of war and battle?

24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,
or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?

25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,
and a path for the thunderstorm,

26 to water a land where no man lives,
a desert with no one in it,

27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland
and make it sprout with grass?

28 Does the rain have a father?
Who fathers the drops of dew?

29 From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens

30 when the waters become hard as stone,
when the surface of the deep is frozen?

31 "Can you bind the beautiful [c] Pleiades?
Can you loose the cords of Orion?

32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons [d]
or lead out the Bear [e] with its cubs?

33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?
Can you set up God's [f] dominion over the earth?

34 "Can you raise your voice to the clouds
and cover yourself with a flood of water?

35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report to you, 'Here we are'?

36 Who endowed the heart [g] with wisdom
or gave understanding to the mind [h] ?

37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?
Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens

38 when the dust becomes hard
and the clods of earth stick together?

39 "Do you hunt the prey for the lioness
and satisfy the hunger of the lions

40 when they crouch in their dens
or lie in wait in a thicket?

41 Who provides food for the raven
when its young cry out to God
and wander about for lack of food?

1 "Do you know when the mountain goats give birth?
Do you watch when the doe bears her fawn?

2 Do you count the months till they bear?
Do you know the time they give birth?

3 They crouch down and bring forth their young;
their labor pains are ended.

4 Their young thrive and grow strong in the wilds;
they leave and do not return.

5 "Who let the wild donkey go free?
Who untied his ropes?

6 I gave him the wasteland as his home,
the salt flats as his habitat.

7 He laughs at the commotion in the town;
he does not hear a driver's shout.

8 He ranges the hills for his pasture
and searches for any green thing.

9 "Will the wild ox consent to serve you?
Will he stay by your manger at night?

10 Can you hold him to the furrow with a harness?
Will he till the valleys behind you?

11 Will you rely on him for his great strength?
Will you leave your heavy work to him?

12 Can you trust him to bring in your grain
and gather it to your threshing floor?

13 "The wings of the ostrich flap joyfully,
but they cannot compare with the pinions and feathers of the stork.

14 She lays her eggs on the ground
and lets them warm in the sand,

15 unmindful that a foot may crush them,
that some wild animal may trample them.

16 She treats her young harshly, as if they were not hers;
she cares not that her labor was in vain,

17 for God did not endow her with wisdom
or give her a share of good sense.

18 Yet when she spreads her feathers to run,
she laughs at horse and rider.

19 "Do you give the horse his strength
or clothe his neck with a flowing mane?

20 Do you make him leap like a locust,
striking terror with his proud snorting?

21 He paws fiercely, rejoicing in his strength,
and charges into the fray.

22 He laughs at fear, afraid of nothing;
he does not shy away from the sword.

23 The quiver rattles against his side,
along with the flashing spear and lance.

24 In frenzied excitement he eats up the ground;
he cannot stand still when the trumpet sounds.

25 At the blast of the trumpet he snorts, 'Aha!'
He catches the scent of battle from afar,
the shout of commanders and the battle cry.

26 "Does the hawk take flight by your wisdom
and spread his wings toward the south?

27 Does the eagle soar at your command
and build his nest on high?

28 He dwells on a cliff and stays there at night;
a rocky crag is his stronghold.

29 From there he seeks out his food;
his eyes detect it from afar.

30 His young ones feast on blood,
and where the slain are, there is he."

1 The LORD said to Job:
2 "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
Let him who accuses God answer him!"

3 Then Job answered the LORD :

4 "I am unworthy—how can I reply to you?
I put my hand over my mouth.

5 I spoke once, but I have no answer—
twice, but I will say no more."

6 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm:

7 "Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

8 "Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

9 Do you have an arm like God's,
and can your voice thunder like his?

10 Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,
and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.

11 Unleash the fury of your wrath,
look at every proud man and bring him low,

12 look at every proud man and humble him,
crush the wicked where they stand.

13 Bury them all in the dust together;
shroud their faces in the grave.

14 Then I myself will admit to you
that your own right hand can save you.

15 "Look at the behemoth, [a]
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.

16 What strength he has in his loins,
what power in the muscles of his belly!

17 His tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of his thighs are close-knit.

18 His bones are tubes of bronze,
his limbs like rods of iron.

19 He ranks first among the works of God,
yet his Maker can approach him with his sword.

20 The hills bring him their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.

21 Under the lotus plants he lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.

22 The lotuses conceal him in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround him.

23 When the river rages, he is not alarmed;
he is secure, though the Jordan should surge against his mouth.

24 Can anyone capture him by the eyes, [c]
or trap him and pierce his nose?
1 "Can you pull in the leviathan [a] with a fishhook
or tie down his tongue with a rope?

2 Can you put a cord through his nose
or pierce his jaw with a hook?

3 Will he keep begging you for mercy?
Will he speak to you with gentle words?

4 Will he make an agreement with you
for you to take him as your slave for life?

5 Can you make a pet of him like a bird
or put him on a leash for your girls?

6 Will traders barter for him?
Will they divide him up among the merchants?

7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons
or his head with fishing spears?

8 If you lay a hand on him,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!

9 Any hope of subduing him is false;
the mere sight of him is overpowering.

10 No one is fierce enough to rouse him.
Who then is able to stand against me?

11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12 "I will not fail to speak of his limbs,
his strength and his graceful form.

13 Who can strip off his outer coat?
Who would approach him with a bridle?

14 Who dares open the doors of his mouth,
ringed about with his fearsome teeth?

15 His back has rows of shields
tightly sealed together;

16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.

17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.

18 His snorting throws out flashes of light;
his eyes are like the rays of dawn.

19 Firebrands stream from his mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.

20 Smoke pours from his nostrils
as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds.

21 His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth.

22 Strength resides in his neck;
dismay goes before him.

23 The folds of his flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.

24 His chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.

25 When he rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before his thrashing.

26 The sword that reaches him has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.

27 Iron he treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.

28 Arrows do not make him flee;
slingstones are like chaff to him.

29 A club seems to him but a piece of straw;
he laughs at the rattling of the lance.

30 His undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.

31 He makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.

32 Behind him he leaves a glistening wake;
one would think the deep had white hair.

33 Nothing on earth is his equal—
a creature without fear.

34 He looks down on all that are haughty;
he is king over all that are proud."

Click to expand...

Job 38-41

That is quite a rebuke that God gave Job considering he did nothing wrong, don't you think?

Joseph Botwinick

RightFromWrong · Aug 9, 2005

Yep your right quit a rebuke, sure glad I am not Job. Don't think there has ever been another one like him.

" 5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you. "

Boy I wish I could have that experence ! most of the time I get NO answers from God and wonder where he went and why didn't he save me from harm or give me some answers to WHY I was going through such and such ?

Joseph_Botwinick · Aug 10, 2005

Originally posted by RightFromWrong:
Joseph_Botwinick

I see where you are comming from, but reality is that when someone is going through tremendous pain in their life especially a Christian and they are angry at God or questioning him. The last thing you should do is tell them they are sinning and how dare they question God and throw a bunch of Bible verses at them or try to tell them but hey look what you do have Ect. Ect.
Click to expand...

God seems to disagree with you as that is exactly what he did with Job. Do you think we should encourage sin because somebody is in great pain? I don't.

All I am saying is God KNOWS our feelings even if that feeling is anger. You try to hide a feeling from God and see if it works. I have yet to meet anyone who didn't question or get angry at God at some point in their life. If they say they haven't they are lying.Its what one does with that anger that becomes sin. [/QUOTE]

Everyone has sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. That does not make it alright or excuse the sin. God will forgive you your sins. But, he will not excuse it, nor encourage it, and neither will I. And neither should you.

AGAIN God wants us to be honest with him. You cannot grow spiritually heathy if you can not do that. You will just live in denial and go through the motions without any real joy. I know I've been there. [/QUOTE]

Being honest does not equate to being right or not sinning. Again, it is clearly sin to be angry at God. It is also clear that God will forgive that sin. Personal pain and discomfort does not seem to be a good enough reason for God to not rebuke sin, as is clearly evident in his response to Job.

Joseph Botwinick

RightFromWrong · Aug 10, 2005

Bottom line for me is it is ok to question and even get angry at God but to not sin in the process. Just like the normal steps to recovery for a person experencing grief has stages so does the steps we need to take with God when we feel wronged. Sorry to say anger is one of them. The important thing is to be able to MOVE on THROUGH the steps into a much healthier and more faith based relationship with God. Better than it was before. I say that cannot be if you try to skip any steps. NNE needs to PROTECT God so let him know how you feel so he can heal you.

RightFromWrong · Aug 10, 2005

woops I wrote that while you were sending your message let me read your now

RightFromWrong · Aug 10, 2005

OK I read what you had to say.

ALL I have to say I am sure glad you were not counceling me and I hope that isn't your profession now. Wheres your compassion dude ?

Is it really SIN to be angry with God ?

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