Is it really SIN to be angry with God ?

Artimaeus ........You are not reading what I have written. Read # 4 again. I never said it was right. I said it is normal and it is our perception that needs correcting. But UNLESS we are honest with those FEELINGS of injustice whether they be from
" God " or others. We can never deal with them properly and in a healthy way so we will not have right relationships with God and others, unless we do.

Remember my example of little boys who are told they must NEVER cry. They NEVER learn to deal with their emotions, so they become distructive unhealthy ANGRY men !

There are alot of Christians walking around with lots of anger at God or others because it is Christians like you who say it is WRONG to be angry at God and it is WRONG to question God. So they remain stuck or just walk out completely, at least emotionally. I know I've been there !

Consider this statement by a Pastor....

Misunderstanding, disagreement, and conflict are inevitable in any relationship, especially one in which a sinful human being tries to relate to an invisible God in a fallen world. thus, if we want to have an honest and intimate relationship with God we need to be willing to " wrestle with God."...Among the Christians I work with in counseling, it has been my experience that those who are willing to honestly wrestle with God by confronting, questioning, or even complaining to him about the pain and injustice they experience are the ones who develop the most intimate relationship with him.

 

As I have said before there is SELFISH Anger and a RIGHTEOUS anger.

Anger that is a result of not gettings ones own way, that is manifested through jealousy, envy, covetousness et. IS WRONG no one would disagree.

Anger that is manesfiested through INJUSTICE which is known as Righteous anger is a healthy God given anger. When we feel wronged either by God or others it is not SIN to question, be perplexed and upset at that wrong doing. To say you have never questioned injustice done torwards you by others ( which by the way God allowed ), I would have to say you would be a liar.
You cannot seperate Righteous anger torwards God different from those against others. They both are the same. INJUSTICE ! God allows everything to happen to us right ?

Now to be angry at God for not getting ones way or we think he is being mean or any other selfish reason is WRONG.

Lets say you had a child and that child was kidnapped, raped and murdered ( that isn't my case, just an example ) You would be ANGRY even at God how can you not. I don't care how spirit filled and how well you were walking with God, you may for a time question the INJUSTICE of that crime, what good could possibly come out of such a heinous senseless crime against an innocent person. It will take certain steps in order to hopefully move on. one of those steps WILL be ANGER.

This is a fact. I wish what I was saying wasn't true but it is. Christians can continue to live in their selfrighteous box and go around telling others how and what they should " FEEL " but they do not realize they hurt others in the process by doing that.

I am so glad God is so much bigger than we are and doesn't take things personal. He can handle our anger.

 

Artimaeus.... I'm sorry you don't get it. everyone I talk to do, including my Pastor. So we are all wrong and you are right

 

Aaron for the last time. Anger is an EMOTION, what you DO with that anger becomes SIN.

Revenge and wrath are outward manifestation to anger that is WRONG ! I never said it wasn't

You are totally misunderstanding what I am saying, if you do understand you are twisting it.

PLEASE REREAD what I wrote below

As I have said before there is SELFISH Anger and a RIGHTEOUS anger.

Anger that is a result of not gettings ones own way, that is manifested through jealousy, envy, covetousness et. IS WRONG no one would disagree.

Anger that is manesfiested through INJUSTICE which is known as Righteous anger is a healthy God given anger. When we feel wronged either by God or others it is not SIN to question, be perplexed and upset at that wrong doing. To say you have never questioned injustice done torwards you by others ( which by the way God allowed ), I would have to say you would be a liar.
You cannot seperate Righteous anger torwards God different from those against others. They both are the same. INJUSTICE ! God allows everything to happen to us right ?

Now to be angry at God for not getting ones way or we think he is being mean or any other selfish reason is WRONG.

Lets say you had a child and that child was kidnapped, raped and murdered ( that isn't my case, just an example ) You would be ANGRY even at God how can you not. I don't care how spirit filled and how well you were walking with God, you may for a time question the INJUSTICE of that crime, what good could possibly come out of such a heinous senseless crime against an innocent person. It will take certain steps in order to hopefully move on. one of those steps WILL be ANGER.

This is a fact. I wish what I was saying wasn't true but it is. Christians can continue to live in their selfrighteous box and go around telling others how and what they should " FEEL " but they do not realize they hurt others in the process by doing that.

I am so glad God is so much bigger than we are and doesn't take things personal. He can handle our anger.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

By the way I never used the word bitterness or bitter you did. I am talking about a feeling
( anger ) which is God given that when injustice happens wants to RIGHT a WRONG in a healthy way. Not in a revengeful way. GET IT !

 

No one has answered me about how they would honestly feel if they had lost a child, or many loved ones in a row died, or had a child kidnapped raped and murdered et. THINK ABOUT IT.

Even my Pastor said he has been angry at God. maybe none of you have had enough injustice done to you in your life. I have, before I was saved, starting from day one, and after. I was told I have been through more in my life than people in third world countries, I've been told I should write a book. When we moved up here 2 1/2 years ago I was looking for a Christian counselor. I had presented all my history both before I was saved and what I went through after, especially 5 years in a row worth of Hell. She was so devistated by what she read she told the secretary to tell me that I would need a specialist. She couldn't even tell me herself. NO I needed someone to point me back to Biblical truths and who would be there for me to see me through my pain. God had left me I was sure of it. ( I know he didn't really but that is how it felt at the time ) Even David felt like God left him. My pastor has felt like God has left him.

All I am saying is I knew BIBLICAL TRUTHS more than most Christians I have ever meet. But when you are tested like Job, most people ( Job I'd say was an exception ) do not have a clear Biblical pespective. Especially if you had been raised the way I was. You are hurting so bad and your feelings are VERY strong, magnified is the word. Feelings of rejection, betrayal, abandonment, inadequancy, injustice, that no amount of head knowledge can change that. The hardest was knowing that I did NOTHING wrong to deserve or cause such trials. When you know that God is the one who allowed it, ( and as far as I was concerned CAUSE it himself) yet you see no benifit or fruit or understanding of why. That can make anyone go crazy. I still do not have answers to many of my experenses and probably never will. I have learned though to not listen to those who say " you just have to get over it " or " Your not trusting God " or " Don't you know what the Bible says " I know that when someone is going through such pain they don't need scripture crammed down their throat, they need someone who will be there for them and walk them through the pain and when they are READY, when the time is right share what Gods perspective is.

You think you guys are going to be able to go to someone who just lost their child in anyway shape or form and say, well the Bible say this and the Bible says that. Are you going to tell them God has his reasons for allowing your child to die. No ! You'd be a fool to do that. Believe me at that time they are not thinking how loving and kind God is they are hurting and want answers. ONLY TIME will tell when they are ready to look to God and get healing in their lives.

Another sad fact is and I can see from your guys answers is MOST people do not know how to deal with hurting Christians. I went to 5 counselors during those 6 years and ONLY one was somewhat decent. My Pastor NOW is the only one who was RIGHT ON. Why was he RIGHT ON because he knew what I was going through and he knew how to counsel me with out judging me. Unlike the others he was able to combine, Compassion, insightful understanding, prayer, patience, no mumbo jumbo hocus pocus bs, and when I was ready for it Gods word. ABOVE ALL he was able to help me understand I wasn't the only one, who dealt with such injustice from other Christians, circumstances et. He said some of the most used Chrisitans are those who God puts through the fire so to speak. Moses, David, Job, Joesph, and so on. He had to go through 5 years of about the same things I went through, he knew a Godly Pastor who went through horrible injustice from his congregation all because he stood for Gods word. ( he was new to the church ) The fact that he said ( which none of the others counselors ahd done ) That God wanted to use me in a greater way, was extremely helpful in itself, I knew that deep down but no one but he had told me that.

Anyway I think it was especially hard for me, since I didn't have a loving upbringing as these guys had. I have been abandoned by 3 mothers and hurt/abused and rejected by 2. I've been in 2 foster homes at 6 and 17, and a father who abused me physically and emotionally ( not sexually thank god ) That is just part of the story. So when I went through 5 years of nonstop trials from other Christians and weird circumstances, it all brought up my past. A loving caring father figure in God was not what I saw.

Don't get me wrong when i first got saved I went through many trials as a new christian again more than most I was even almost raped and murdered, but my faith was strong and i looked to God all the way through each trial. One of the big differences was I had a new Christian FAMILT that supported me ALL the way. When I went through the 5 years of Hell, I had no one there for me,( actually a few NONchristian friends ) even my own Husband didn't know what to do and he was part of the problem he had no back bone. Anyway see the difference. I think it is amazing in itself I am still alive , still sain, still going to church and still know God loves me and has a plan for me.

I didn't want to write all this as it is a very personal story, but felt that there is where my understanding comes from about this subject. Christians NEED this understanding that for a healthy relationship God wants us to be honest about our feelings, he wants us to ask questions to SEEK him no matter how we do it, so he can help us through our pain.

I just would hate for people to tell others that are hurting to just get over it, don't you know what the Bible says about what you are feeling ! Give me a break, please don't do that next time someone is in need of a friend, see him as God would see him.

[ September 05, 2005, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

By the way MARCIA I think you did the best in explaining your points in a compassionate way. You made the most sense to me.

I do understand where you guys are all comming from. Don't get me wrong.

But I think it is more important to see where GOD IS COMMING FROM. I do not see God chastising a Christian who questions him and is even angry at times with him for the injustice he allows in their life. I see a patient loving God who want to heal and help us.

Guess thats my bottom line. My own Pastor gets it why can't you ?

 

No one has answered me about how they would honestly feel if they had lost a child, or many loved ones in a row died, or had a child kidnapped raped and murdered et. THINK ABOUT IT.

Even my Pastor said he has been angry at God. maybe none of you have had enough injustice done to you in your life. I have, before I was saved, starting from day one, and after. I was told I have been through more in my life than people in third world countries, I've been told I should write a book. When we moved up here 2 1/2 years ago I was looking for a Christian counselor. I had presented all my history both before I was saved and what I went through after, especially 5 years in a row worth of Hell. She was so devistated by what she read she told the secretary to tell me that I would need a specialist. She couldn't even tell me herself. NO I needed someone to point me back to Biblical truths and who would be there for me to see me through my pain. God had left me I was sure of it. ( I know he didn't really but that is how it felt at the time ) Even David felt like God left him. My pastor has felt like God has left him.

All I am saying is I knew BIBLICAL TRUTHS more than most Christians I have ever meet. But when you are tested like Job, most people ( Job I'd say was an exception ) do not have a clear Biblical pespective. Especially if you had been raised the way I was. You are hurting so bad and your feelings are VERY strong, magnified is the word. Feelings of rejection, betrayal, abandonment, inadequancy, injustice, that no amount of head knowledge can change that. The hardest was knowing that I did NOTHING wrong to deserve or cause such trials. When you know that God is the one who allowed it, ( and as far as I was concerned CAUSE it himself) yet you see no benifit or fruit or understanding of why. That can make anyone go crazy. I still do not have answers to many of my experenses and probably never will. I have learned though to not listen to those who say " you just have to get over it " or " Your not trusting God " or " Don't you know what the Bible says " I know that when someone is going through such pain they don't need scripture crammed down their throat, they need someone who will be there for them and walk them through the pain and when they are READY, when the time is right share what Gods perspective is.

You think you guys are going to be able to go to someone who just lost their child in anyway shape or form and say, well the Bible say this and the Bible says that. Are you going to tell them God has his reasons for allowing your child to die. No ! You'd be a fool to do that. Believe me at that time they are not thinking how loving and kind God is they are hurting and want answers. ONLY TIME will tell when they are ready to look to God and get healing in their lives.

Another sad fact is and I can see from your guys answers is MOST people do not know how to deal with hurting Christians. I went to 5 counselors during those 6 years and ONLY one was somewhat decent. My Pastor NOW is the only one who was RIGHT ON. Why was he RIGHT ON because he knew what I was going through and he knew how to counsel me with out judging me. Unlike the others he was able to combine, Compassion, insightful understanding, prayer, patience, no mumbo jumbo hocus pocus bs, and when I was ready for it Gods word. ABOVE ALL he was able to help me understand I wasn't the only one, who dealt with such injustice from other Christians, circumstances et. He said some of the most used Chrisitans are those who God puts through the fire so to speak. Moses, David, Job, Joesph, and so on. He had to go through 5 years of about the same things I went through, he knew a Godly Pastor who went through horrible injustice from his congregation all because he stood for Gods word. ( he was new to the church ) The fact that he said ( which none of the others counselors ahd done ) That God wanted to use me in a greater way, was extremely helpful in itself, I knew that deep down but no one but he had told me that.

Anyway I think it was especially hard for me, since I didn't have a loving upbringing as these guys had. I have been abandoned by 3 mothers and hurt/abused and rejected by 2. I've been in 2 foster homes at 6 and 17, and an adopted father who abused me physically and emotionally ( not sexually thank god ) That is just part of the story. So when I went through 5 years of nonstop trials from other Christians and weird circumstances, it all brought up my past. A loving caring father figure in God was not what I saw.

Don't get me wrong when I first got saved I went through many trials as a new christian again more than most I was even almost raped and murdered, but my faith was strong and I looked to God all the way through each trial. One of the big differences was I had a new Christian FAMILY that supported me ALL the way. When I went through the 5 years of Hell, I had no one there for me,( actually just a few NONchristian friends, I have no real family, but my husband and kids ) even my own Husband didn't know what to do and he was part of the problem he had no back bone, to stand up for injustice. Anyway see the difference. I think it is amazing in itself I am still alive , still sain, still going to church and still know God loves me and has a plan for me.

I didn't want to write all this as it is a very personal story, but I felt that this is where my understanding comes from about this subject. Christians NEED this understanding in order for a healthy relationship and to help others. God wants us to be honest about our feelings, he wants us to ask questions to SEEK him no matter how we do it, so he can help us through our pain.

I just would hate for people to tell others that are hurting to "just get over it ", " don't you know what the Bible says about what you are feeling" ! Give me a break, please don't do that next time someone is in need of a friend, see him as God would see him.

[ September 05, 2005, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

Craig..... I didn't misunderstand my Pastor, we both agreed that it IS WRONG to be angry at anyone for selfish reasons, even God. It wasn't wrong to be angry for righteous reasons, feelings of injustice, and it wasn't wrong to QUESTION God. Job was the only example of God rebuking someone for questioning him, he never rebuked, Moses, Davis, Jeremiah, Paul, or anyone else for that matter. And by the way I am not Job and I'm sure Job had a better growing up than I did.

Jesus KNEW why he came to earth he knew he came to die, He knew why things were happing to him and what the SOURCE was. Big difference !
At the time I didn't understand what was happening I didn't know if it was me, others or God. See the difference.

I and my Pastor NEVER blasphemied God, I never rejected God and his word if I had I wouldn't be here today talking to you Stop tryin to put what I am saying into the catagories of SIN
evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:


You guys are very mean spirited and do not see the love of God and God forbid any of you ever try to be a help to anyone. just keep your mouth shut as you would only hurt that person with your self righteous attitudes.


There is no sense talking to you guys all you want to do is argue, I have made my pionts very clear others get it why can't you. Oh yeah I know why Pharisees attitude that is why. But what should I expect for those misinterpet Gods word.

By the way neither of you guys Craig, Aaron, Artimaeus NEVER answered my question on how you would feel if you had a child, wife, sister, mother, kidnapped raped and murdered. I'm sure you would be praising God all the way right ?

 

bapmom ..... Obviously you haven't read all my post where I explain that anger is part of a process of LOSS. I NEVER said it was ok to STAY angry, And I have never been so angry I have sinned. I too am talking about momentary anger. My Pastor shared the same thing, we have never forsaken God in the process therefore we obviously never had long term anger, maybe long term questioning. It really isn't that hard to undersatnd what I am saying. These guys want to make what I am saying worse than it is.

Thats ok though I know God knows what I am talking about, he is telling me its ok. These are the kinds of fools who keep hurting my children, they have no understanding or compassion, they just like to stuff all their feelings inside. Their anger comes out in other unhealthy ways. If only they would just talk to me about those feeling I know them already so why not just share them with me so I can heal them.

 

Bapmom write....Ive lost a child.

And I can tell you that I do not believe God would have been pleased with me if I had become angry at Him.


See thats where you are wrong ! First you are going to tell me when you lost you child ( how old was it ? ) that you never questioned God on why ? If you say you never did you are LYING.

You are also wrong that God would be upset with you. I don't know what kind of God you all know ? but, he wouldn't be upset with you at all ! thats what I am saying. He hurts when we hurt, he feels our pain, he understands our frustration and anger. WHY WOULDN'T HE HE IS THE ONE GAVES US THOSE EMOTIONS TO BEGIN WITH.

You all don't serve the same God i do. Your God is mean and judgmental.