addiction

Why not find the answers in the Word of God instead of experiences and opinions?

 

</font>[/QUOTE]The underlying causes are self and sin.

 

So, what is your basis for thinking this? Christ said my natural craving (i.e. lust, desire) to bed a beautiful woman is sin. How is this craving (i.e. lust, desire) different? It seems every red-blooded manly guy has a natural desire to sleep with a beautiful woman. It is just an automatic response to being a man.

What happens when we change the terminology? Instead of calling it “psychological addiction,” let’s call it what it is—lust. It fits the definition of lust in the same way that pedophilia does. Are you going to call pedophilia a psychological addiction? Will it change the moral nature? Now, how does that change the moral nature?

Now, you are bringing a lot of baggage into the conversation by using terms such as healing. This presupposes a medical model of “mental illness.” As stated elsewhere, this is a badly flawed and dysfunctional model. There is little success with this approach. People spontaneously get “better” of their “mental illness” at about the same rate whether in or out of a program.

If you accept a moral, Biblical model, then you are talking about responsibility and repentance. If regeneration is real, then there ought to be a corresponding change in behavior. Although Christians do continue to sin but they do not walk in sin (I John 5:18). There may be reason to question whether repentance and salvation is genuine in the professed convert who continues in his sin.

 

WOW,Paidagogos
I can't say that your wrong but if I were still using you would not be the one witnessing to me. you would have been out of my world of thought right out of the gate.

 

Is not Christ alone sufficient? Since I quoted your whole post, you cannot accuse me of misquoting you.

The weakness of your argument, including others on this thread, is that you are using anecdotal testimonies only. You do not support anything you say with Scripture. You can find the same kind of testimonials from people who supposedly received the same results with Yoga or meditation or whatever. What makes your testimony true or more valid than their testimony without Christ? Truth is not established by personal experiences.

I say that Christ alone is sufficient. As Paul wrote: “I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me (Philippians 4:13). Either this is true or false. If it is false then I need to log off my computer and go for the gusto in life. On the other hand, if it is true, then Christ is sufficient for me to live without being bound by alcohol or drugs or sex. It's really a simple choice if I don't rationalize.

 

You talk to your audience. I didn't frame my arguments as if I was talking to a bunch of druggies or drunks. I speak their language too. You can change the language but you can never change the message. Also, you preach both sides--sin is deceitfully wicked, evil and sinful but God is loving, merciful and patient. Paint both pictures in bold strokes.

 

My,my like I said I don't think you will be doing to much witnessing in this area so why even try to talk about the subject.
I can tell what kind of person you are from how you write .I pray when I'm done with bible school I can still talk to the sick and the lost or druggies, like Jesus did. Advise to you sir; if you want to work for God don't make people afraid of Christ, tell them how much God loves them.

speak the truth in LOVE! NOT INHATE OR FEAR.

 

Hey Tyler,
Read about your career with John Barley Corn, I'm a friend of Bill W. After a 13 year love affair with ethyl alcohol, I had to admit defeat, she had me beat.

I turned everything over to God and I ain't looked back.

 

My Career was with the "Capt",(Morgan) that is... One day I could not live without it, the next day, it was like I had not had a drop in my entire life...! Who am I but a "nobody" from "nowhere"...however if Christ can do this for me, what can He do for others who are willing to call upon His name!! BTW... glad to see your with the "living" and the "Breathing"!

God Bless
Tyler

Only Christ Saves!

 

Its great to meet someone else involved in RU! Its a very good program.


paidogogos, I think I see what you are saying. I can see that in what our program at my church does. We preach hard against the sin, we urge them to become truly convicted about what they are doing. Then we teach them too, about God's love, mercy and forgiveness.

SAMPLE, I think if you look at it clearly, you'd agree.

 

??? LOOK at what clearly bapmom?

 

At the Ministry my husband and I are involved in we love the men to Jesus and teach them they are a some body just like you are Tyler. You are now a child of the King!! Most of the men we get at the Ministry are very loving and caring indivuals like all of us Christians should be and yes Jesus Christ can change them at the moment of salvation because he is a powerful God and can do anything! Praise the Lord for you men that have decided to let Jesus direct your lives.

.......Becky.....

 

well come on, Sample,

you are upset at what paidagogos is saying, yet in reality wouldn't you agree that the drunkenness and the drug abuse were sin? As well as the underlying cause of it in your life? You've got a powerful testimony. You recognize the weaknesses in yourself, and Ive seen you admit them publicly while on the road to overcoming. Thats what paidagogos is saying.

The addict has to realize that there is more than just cravings he has to deal with. He must deal with the underlying reason he turned to the "drug of choice."

We teach our people all the time that it is often times something in his own life he needs to repent from in order to gain real victory over this stronghold in his life. This is not a hateful message. The truth is a loving message, though sometimes it can be hard to hear.

 

Oh, yes I do agree! I disagree with the tone of voice that was spoken. you can not reach a drug addicted drunk by beating on him . you have to SPEAK the TRUTH in LOVE ! That is the only way I could have been reached, that is the way I was reached .A Jail house preacher got to me because he loved me not because he explained what a no good sinner I was . although he did tell me I had been wrong. I believe sometimes we Christians get caught up in telling others how bad they are which sometimes leads the lost sinner to think that the HOLIER THAN THOU can just keep what ever it is that they have. I do not want anyone thinking that around me so if Ineed to speak in a simple tone to win souls that is what I will do. I don't care about impressing the over educated. I care about seeing the lost saved.

I do believe that you mean no harm. On the other hand I do believe others do harm weather they know it or not. I've lived under that bible beating balona before and thats just not what God had in mind.

 

Sample,

like someone said, we say things alot differently here on the forum board than we would say in person, face-to-face with the drug addict needing help.
I, too, would not go up to one of our people and lambast them about holy living. Much of the "stop sinning" stuff would be done from behind a pulpit by the speaker of the night. The individual counselling is, first of all, in private, so if something hard HAS to be said it can be, without being too harsh or embarrassing by singling someone out in public. However, those cases are rare.
Most of the counselling that goes on is encouragement to use the tools they are being given each week in order to combat their addiction, and of course, we try to delve into what each person's underlying cause is, although they don't have to share that in the group if they don't want to.

 

Why is it that we talk differently here. should we not speak simply and clearly at all times. Why would we speak any other way.I speak to fit Gods purpose,For His glory not to iet man know how smart I am. Why speak so coldly, to belittle another.

 

Well Sample, when we present a truth, its a truth. There's not so much need to "couch" it in more careful terms because here on the forum board it is assumed, I guess, that we are not in a counselling time.....

There are some truths I can state as the truth, but that does not mean I would come out and say that particular truth to someone who was hurting right at that time. I believe its part of "becoming all things to all men." We should be what those around us need us to be at that time......all within the realm of Scriptural bounds, of course.

 

Joe Williams,

Please read the following journal entry by John MacArthur. Also, read Psalms 32:3-4. David was in depression from his failure to repent from his sin.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/J91-21-1.HTM

I thank God for believers such as Paidagogos whom believe that all of man's mental problems can be counseled by God's perfect Holy Word.

 

I believe that you would be suprised at how much counselling gets done here.Thats why I ask ; why dont we act like we are wittnessing all the time.