God's judgement on a pastor!

John ...

You are the FIRST person that I have ever heard make that claim ...

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The will of the Father that his Son’s blood would pay for your sins if full by having faith in Him. The people Jesus was speaking to in v21 were trying to show what good works they had done, missing the point.

I once had this conversation with a contractor who struggled with drugs and sin about the JSOC and Jesus saying He had many mansions, and also about being naked when he got there, being warm not hot or cold and wearing white linen. He said that he was weak but Jesus was strong and no one was ever going to convince him his sins weren’t paid for in full and that he would just mow the grass naked if that’s all he was capable of getting.

 

I do not know very many believers that live by that verse ... but, that is what it is stating.

Should we soften the statement so that 'we' feel better? I know that I do, but I am not sure that I should.

 

You guys keep using the word " PUNISHMENT " and " JUDGEMENT "

what does this refer too ?
The bible is very clear that we will ONLY suffer LOSS. So what is going to happens to Pastors who or anyone for that matter who do not live up to certain expectations ?

Need Bible verses please on PUNISHMENT

 

Personally, I am not that strong on the 'Kingdom' interpretation as it is being applied to this verse. But, I cannot escape what it is saying.

 

</font>[/QUOTE]If that's the case, the salvation is works based, because we're told explicitly that we will be judged according to our works.

No, "krima" varies in definition by context, ranging from simple decision making to spiritual condemnation.

In fact, in Matt 7:1, the word "judge" (krima) is used in the context of making decisions of distinguishment.

 

The will of the Father that his Son’s blood would pay for your sins if full by having faith in Him. The people Jesus was speaking to in v21 were trying to show what good works they had done, missing the point.

I once had this conversation with a contractor who struggled with drugs and sin about the JSOC and Jesus saying He had many mansions, and also about being naked when he got there, being warm not hot or cold and wearing white linen. He said that he was weak but Jesus was strong and no one was ever going to convince him his sins weren’t paid for in full and that he would just mow the grass naked if that’s all he was capable of getting. </font>[/QUOTE]The will of the Father is certainly that all who believe on the Son should be saved:
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

But that is not the complete will of God, that is just the beginning of your new life in Christ, and God has an even greater will than this for you. Now that you are born again, it is His will that you should walk in the spirit and not in the flesh.

1 Peter 4:1-2
1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

The Lord wants us to do good works as a testimony to the world.
1 Peter 2:15
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

There are many things that God wants us to be doing while we wait patiently on the Lord's return.
1 Thessalonians 5:14-18
14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
16 Rejoice evermore.
17 Pray without ceasing.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

All these things and more are the will of God that He would have us do if we hope to inherit the kingdom. It is good to rest in the finished work of Christ for the gift of eternal salvation. But it is wrong to rest for the reward.

Your friend the naked lawnmower needs to realize that through Christ, he is dead to sin.
Romans 6:12-14
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Jesus is going to spew the lukewarm Christians out of His mouth. To use the excuse that we are weak is to deny that the Lord has given us the power to overcome sins through His blood as well as paid the price for our sins.

 

How this relates to teachers is obvious. Teachers are going to be responsible not only for their own actions, but also for teaching others to do the same.

Matthew 5:19-20
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The lesson is, keep the commandments, and teach other believers to do the same. Not for salvation in eternity, for the reward.

 

That's sort of what I've been saying all along.

 

James_Newman,

Good post. I wish I would have been more prepared with the right Words for the naked lawnmower. Although I know no one is perfect and won’t draw the line that someone can’t cross, I also believe one should consider the JSOC and the rewards in Heaven. He died about 1 1/2 years later from an overdose.

 

Benjamin

We learn from what happens. Sometimes what happens is painful ...

 

That's sort of what I've been saying all along. </font>[/QUOTE]Yup, thats been my understanding all along.

 

There is no "punishment" as such for the children of God but the disciplining of the Father.

KJV Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

KJV Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

There is an earthly judgment for the children of God who walk unworthy but even that is for our ultimate benefit.

1 Corithians 11
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

HankD

 

Hank I'm with ya on this. The Bible is very clear that Christians will not receive " Punishment " after we die, just loss of rewards and maybe like Charles Stanley said differant appreciation of Heaven.

But there is definitely consequences here on Earth. Good One

 

</font>[/QUOTE]I think this sums it up quite nicely. </font>[/QUOTE]Lu 12:48 For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:

Comversely: to him "little" is given, "little" is expected.

Mt 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Mt 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Suppose the "five" talents had only gained "Two talents", He would have been "Negligent" in his service, while the "Two talent" would be Judged "FAITHFUL", even with "LESS" to show.

 

Yeah. So is God. </font>[/QUOTE]Excuse me? </font>[/QUOTE]Jeremiah 3:6-11
6 The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. 7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. 10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD. 11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.

 

There is no "punishment" as such for the children of God but the disciplining of the Father.

1 Corithians 11
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many....sleep. (dead)

HankD </font>[/QUOTE]Have you even considered that God will allow Satan to "kill you physically" if you rebell against him??

1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you,

This "fornication" can be either "physical" or "Spiritual" as in "Whoring after other gods".

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This is what God does to Israel during the trib for rebelling against him. (Jesus)

Ten virgins waited for the "Bridegroom" (rapture) but five had let their "light go out", (No spirit, rebelled) so they missed the rapture.

If we don't have "Ears" to hear the "Voice of the spirit" now, we won't hear it in the rapture either.

We either keep the "Old Man" crucified, or God will allow Satan to do it for us.

 

I agree 100% with all of that but I take it one step further and say that there also will be negative reward (And very serious) at the JSOC.

Lacy

 

Howdy Lacy!

 

Yeah. So is God. </font>[/QUOTE]Excuse me? </font>[/QUOTE]Jeremiah 3:6-11
6 The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. 7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. 10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD. 11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah. </font>[/QUOTE]I don't see the correlation between Israel, Judah, and Charles Stanley.