Halloween

DHK wrote,

And the devil still has a wild time celebrating on that particular night held in honor of him. Just think--a holiday held in honor of Satan--how glad it must make him!

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What irresponsible nonsense! What could possibly be a greater misrepresentation of the truth? Having a wholesome time of enjoyment with our children on Halloween honors Christ, not Satan. However, misrepresentations of the truth honor Satan, not Christ.

jshurley04 said:

Lot of bad theology about us standing before God on Judgment Day. We do not stand before Him, we stand with Him. We do however answer for our actions and decisions at the Bema Seat of Christ. That is where our works are tried by fire. That is where we will answer for those sins we have committed post salvation and not repented of before our death/rapture. That is also where our actions are also tested. This is why we must be active to reach people now when the opportunity arises. I simply believe that we get over separated too many times and not in touch with the world to do them any eternal good.

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This is bad theology.

if this thread is about what to do on Oct 31st, I've extrapolated a few thoughts:
I wish Christians should be more celebrative when it comies to death myself personally. It's not prejuidiced, we're just looking foward to the passage, we know where we're going. So for haloween or "Dia De Los Muertos," lets PARTY!

candy candy candy!!!

Someone quoted a portion of one of my old posts so I'll respond.

HankD said:

Someone quoted a portion of one of my old posts so I'll respond.

James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.​

No matter what our practices, what we allow or disallow ourselves we will offend someone (when and if they find it out).​

What's the point?​

We live in a world and culture rooted in paganism.
For instance the names of the days of the week all derive from paganism:​

Sunday "Sun day" The day devoted to the sun
Monday "Moon day" The day devoted to the moon.
Tuesday "Zeus Day" The day devoted to Zeus.
Wednesday "Woden's Day" The day devoted to Woden.
Thursday "Thor's day" The day devoted to Thor.
Friday "Freya's day" The day devoted to Freya (or Fria).
Saturday "Saturn's Day" The day devoted to Saturn.​

Techically speaking we should be calling them by their biblical names or use a cardinal number (1st, 2nd, 3rd...day of the week).​

If you have a midweek prayer service on Wednesday or Thursday and publish it your bulletin, do you really honor or pray to Woden or Thor?​

Under the Law...
Exodus 23:13 And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.​

HankD​

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I believe Tuesday is probably more properly associated with Mars than with Zeus, as Zeus is the equivalent of Thor in the pagan naming. Tuesday, from Twi or Tyr, the Norse God of War, is equivalent to Mars. All that said, I really wanted to comment on the last line of your post. If we really followed Exodus 23:13 in practice, we could not speak of any day by its common name for all seven were named for some pagan deity, as you mentioned. And eight of the months on the Calender are also named for these or a couple of 'demigods', Julius and Octavian. Just a bit of info, here. Thankfully, we are indeed not under the law but under grace.

Ed

It's not a matter of what the days are named for or anything else like that. We do not 'celebrate' Tuesday, or Wednesday, etc.

But, regardless of all the equivocations regarding Halloween, we in the USA 'celebrate' it like no other country I'm aware of does. And if you look at the costumes, it is a celebration of death, fear, blood, ghoulishness, etc. Death is the result of sin. We are therefore 'celebrating' the result of sin.

Candy? SURE! Let's add rotting of teeth and encouragement toward diabetes, obesity, and heart failure to the little kids.

Not for me, no thank you.

Getting back to a bit of "ancient history", what exactly is intrinsically pagan about "All- Hallow's Evening", the eve of "All Saint's Day"? Or a "Fall Festival"? Someone help me out on this one, please.

Was it 'pagan' when Dr. Martin Luther drove the nail in the Wittenburg church door, nailing the 95 Theses there?

Is it pagan when my own church sponsors a "Trunk of Treats", where we get to meet families that we would probably otherwise not ever meet, and make contacts and follow-up with visitation, and present the gospel message to the families later, and have a short service there and snacks for kids in a 'safe environment', for many who might not be aware of the dangers of being 'on the street' or letting the kids roam free, more or less unsupervised in an urban setting?

Do I understand the pagan Druidism? I do, to some degree. Do I give it attention? Actually, I think we, if anything, draw some attention away from this 'twist', in what we do. A good 95% of the families we see and meet would have no clue about the pagan spin to 'Halloween'. But 100% of them understand the kids being safe.

I have absolutely no problem with those who choose not to give any acknowledgement to 'Halloween'. But, as Christians, we should not "stick our head in the sand" as an ostrich, and 'blind ourselves' to what is around us. And I do somewhat agree with a previous poster on this thread- J. K. Rowland via "Harry Potter" has done more to advance witchcraft, than the last 100 Halloweens, in my -not so-humble-opinion.

Ed

For a really scary thought, in the USA, we get to decide in 10 days, which crooks to change, and which ones to keep in office. Now that's a scary thought!

Helen said:

.........
Candy? SURE! Let's add rotting of teeth and encouragement toward diabetes, obesity, and heart failure to the little kids.

Not for me, no thank you.

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That is your right, entirely.
As for me, I will be passing out little Hershey bars to all the cute little princesses, tigers, and firemen who will be coming to my door.

If I recall, you take the position that wine, in moderation, is OK. And that is a valid viewpoint. Ironically, you are taking a complete teetotaller view here with regards to candy.
I assure you my kids, for example, :thumbs: , have never come home and gorged on candy. They have always been physically active, etc. No cavities in our household ! They have always taken a balanced viewpoint towards their pile. If someone gorges, they perhaps have tendencies that are showing up regardless of whether or not they dressed as a bumblebee and got some candy from the neighbors.

Brother Bob said:

candy candy candy!!!

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Amen, Bro. Preach it! :tongue3: :thumbsup: :laugh: Too bad I have to stay away from most of it as a Type II diabetic. :tear:

Ed

Karen said:

That is your right, entirely.
As for me, I will be passing out little Hershey bars to all the cute little princesses, tigers, and firemen who will be coming to my door.

If I recall, you take the position that wine, in moderation, is OK. And that is a valid viewpoint. Ironically, you are taking a complete teetotaller view here with regards to candy.
I assure you my kids, for example, :thumbs: , have never come home and gorged on candy. They have always been physically active, etc. No cavities in our household ! They have always taken a balanced viewpoint towards their pile. If someone gorges, they perhaps have tendencies that are showing up regardless of whether or not they dressed as a bumblebee and got some candy from the neighbors.

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I eat some candy, but as a diabetic not much! And I gave my kids candy on occasion. However Halloween is like a drunk in a bar -- overload. If you get princesses and firement and tigers, great. You have a great neighborhood.

But down the street from us is an entire front yard which 'does' Halloween. There is a guillotine with a head dropped off in a basket. There is the devil with teeth dripping 'blood'. There are tombstones and gallows and a witch's cauldron. THAT is what Halloween is to most of America.

When we lived in the little town of Shingle Springs, California (about ten miles west of Placerville in the Sierra Nevada foothills east of Sacramento), the vet and I spent one November 1 picking bb's out of the skin of one of our horses and medicating injuries on the leg where he had tried to break through a wood fence to escape the 'fun' some of the teens were having. Another year November 1 found a number of dead dogs and cats in the trash cans and swimming pool of the nearby high school. More fun.

Some may think all this is cute. I lost the sense of 'cute' a long time ago. When churches have Harvest Festivals that's great. Pulling people away from death to life should always be encouraged!

Ed, what Halloween has become in America has nothing to do with All Saints' Day or All Hallow's Eve anymore. Are there any cards reminding us of that, the way cards remind us of what Christmas is all about?

Notice that around this time of year many television stations pick the worst and goriest and scariest of the movies to show -- in primetime. It's in keeping with the season.

Recognizing this is not putting our heads in the sand. It's finally taking them out and looking at what is actually going on.

accidental re-post

Already lost my teeth.
Already had 2 heart surgeries.

And you want me to give up candy too?

Wasn't thinking of you, Bob. I was thinking of the kids, which I think I made clear.

The teens and young adults know more what is going on than a lot of adults, I think:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/28/halloween.party.ap/index.html

I would agree with Helen to the extent that some Christians and churches get far to close to some of the pagan death worship practice of Halowe'en with their costumes.

Honoring false gods is a matter of degree in our culture, for instance naming our children. "Jason" for instance is of pagan origin but so is "Apollos" who has a believer named after him in the Scripture.

Our money for another instance is covered with graven images and even one of definite and unmistakable pagan origin - The all seeing eye of Isis/Horus over the "great pyramid" of Eygypt on our one dollar bill, the document of record of our monetary system. "IN GOD WE TRUST"? Which one Isis, Horus or ? Who are we honoring with this pagan symbol?

I guess my point is that the problem is of a greater scope than Halowe'en (Hallowed Evening) celebration or the materialistic and worldly excesses of the Christmas season.

At our Church we have fun night for the neighborhood kids to get them off the street and into the Church with the Word of God presented. Compromise? If it is, I believe it is one that is acceptable or at least tolerated by God.

BTW anyone who has a problem with our "pagan" money send it on to me and I'll take care of it for you.

HankD

HankD said:

I would agree with Helen to the extent that some Christians and churches get far to close to some of the pagan death worship practice of Halowe'en with their costumes.

Honoring false gods is a matter of degree in our culture, for instance naming our children. "Jason" for instance is of pagan origin but so is "Apollos" who has a believer named after him in the Scripture.

Our money for another instance is covered with graven images and even one of definite and unmistakable pagan origin - The all seeing eye of Isis/Horus over the "great pyramid" of Eygypt on our one dollar bill, the document of record of our monetary system. "IN GOD WE TRUST"? Which one Isis, Horus or ? Who are we honoring with this pagan symbol?

I guess my point is that the problem is of a greater scope than Halowe'en (Hallowed Evening) celebration or the materialistic and worldly excesses of the Christmas season.

At our Church we have fun night for the neighborhood kids to get them off the street and into the Church with the Word of God presented. Compromise? If it is, I believe it is one that is acceptable or at least tolerated by God.

BTW anyone who has a problem with our "pagan" money send it on to me and I'll take care of it for you.

HankD

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My own church including me, agrees that there is definitely a 'taint' to our 'pagan' money. Usually, in the form that there 'Taint enough of it' to do all that we might like. Hank, we agree about getting kids off the streets, anyway! And I agree with what you said about this as 'compromise'. BTW, I believe there is also a Biblical person named Jason, as well as the one named Apollos. And I believe if you were to check, you might decide that it is not "the Great Pyramid" which is/was a tomb, but a flat-topped 'ziggurat' (or an 'high place' of pagan worship) that the 'all-seeing eye' is above. And that eye is definitely not that of YHWH or God, as you have rightly said.

Ed

give me give me give me, I just want my fair share of that pagan stuff so I can buy me some more stuff!!!!

Guys, this ISN'T about money. This ISN'T about naming kids. This ISN'T about days of the week.

This is about an "American" custom of glamorizing horror in the name of Halloween. Halloween night is a night when animals are killed for fun. It's a night when fear and death are celebrated.

Harvest festivals are fine. Getting kids off the streets is great.

But don't forget WHY these things need to be done at this particular time. And please, please don't confuse the pagan aspects of our culture with an actual celebration of the results of sin.

As parents, my wife and I began to be convicted about 8 years ago. For a couple of years we went back and forth on the issue mainly as a result of family pressure. ( her parents and brother are Christians who had no convictions on the issue.

Now, we do not participate, nor do we allow our daughters to participate.

As a pastor who God started preparing in 2000, I am not afraid to share my conviction and the reasons for it with anyone.... However, as the pastor, I do not push these convictions on others. I just pray that the Holy Spirit uses His Word to bring the convictions.

Helen said:

This is about an "American" custom of glamorizing horror in the name of Halloween. Halloween night is a night when animals are killed for fun. It's a night when fear and death are celebrated.
...
But don't forget WHY these things need to be done at this particular time. And please, please don't confuse the pagan aspects of our culture with an actual celebration of the results of sin.

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You're right Helen and these things - and worse - happen every day/night of the year here in America not just on Halloween.

Our philosophy is to bring them in off the street and tell them the Truth.

Pray for our nation...



HankD