Drinking "a choice"?

I don't think that's necessarily true.
People can tell when they are spending too much time thinking about drinking, drinking too much or lettin it become an issue with them. People usually know their limits. At least I do and have gone through all that before, yrs ago.

 

Rachel,

There are psychological tests that can show if certain people have personality traits that are more likely to lead to alcoholism, but very, very, very rarely do people take these tests to find out.

Many an alocholic went for 20 to 40 years thinking that they could handle it, only to discover that when certain circumstances in their life changed they couldn't handle it.

As to knowing their limits - if people really knew their limits, no one would become an alcoholic. It is a terrible illness, and it destroys.

I've worked with individuals who were adult children of alcoholics who swore it would never happen to them. Some of them were complete tea-totlers in their younger days or merely social drinkers for many decades. Then when certain things happened to them they thought, "one drink," won't hurt, and "one" became "two" and "two became three" and ......

 

TexasSky, I'm sure that's true too. Still, having the Holy Spirit in us helps in so many ways though.

 

I don't think that's necessarily true.
People can tell when they are spending too much time thinking about drinking, drinking too much or lettin it become an issue with them. People usually know their limits. At least I do and have gone through all that before, yrs ago. </font>[/QUOTE]After dreaming for 10 years about building a new home and finally getting the chance to build it, in which I learned the meaning of the words-blood, sweat and tears, for the 20 months it took me to do it on my own. I decided to buy a bottle of wine to celebrate finishing our home, spent $40.00 dollars on it figuring such a rare occasion it might as well not be the cheap stuff. It’s been a year and a half and I’m still waiting for the right night to open it. I think I spend way to much time thinking about that bottle of wine and yes, I have let it become a issue with me I guess. One of these days…maybe soon!

 

I don't think that's necessarily true.
People can tell when they are spending too much time thinking about drinking, drinking too much or lettin it become an issue with them. People usually know their limits. At least I do and have gone through all that before, yrs ago. </font>[/QUOTE]Thou almost persuadest me to be a drunkard. I have gone through all that years ago also. Then I went through it all again more recently. I will not go through it yet again, God do so to me and more if i let a drop of that devil's drink touch my lips.

 

For this reason, we do not drink.


Paul said all things are permissible, and we are free to do as we please, but not all things are helpful or profitable. All things are legitmate, but not all things are edifying to spiritual life. Let no one then seek his own good and advantage and profit, but rather each one of the other, let him seek the welfare of his neighbor.

 

Elnora, that is exactly why I recommend that if any do partake of alcohol, they do so in the privacy of their own homes, and do not make it an issue of stumbling for others.

 

The reason she doesn't know this is because it's not true.

Alcoholics aren't alcoholics because they drink, they drink because they're alcoholics.

The drinking is just a symptom of the disease, not the disease, itself.

 

Tony,

I personally don't have a problem with those who drink in moderation. We are invited to all of our neighbor's family celebrations. All the adults in that family drink at these celebrations including at the kids birthdays. But.... they drink, I want to stress, in moderation and we decline their offer of alcohol, graciously. We get invited back. If someone we know has a problem with drinking we aren't causing that person to stumble. I am comfortable with that.

Romans 14:19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

 

If Billy Sunday was still alive, I wonder what he would have to say on this matter...

 

IFBChristian, he probably would say for him it would be wrong to drink. And he would be right. It would be for him, though it might not be for someone else.

 

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Since God gave man a freewill, then we can choose whether or not to use Alcohol as a beverage. But as with all of our choices, there are also consequences. The above verse in Proverbs makes the choice crystal clear for me...NO ALCOHOL.

 

In 1974 or 1975, my wife and I went out with some friends to celebrate my birthday. We had a bottle of wine with dinner. I drank too much of it. After dinner, we were going to the friends' house (wife driving), when my darling wife killed the car (automatic transmission yet!) in the middle of the road.

I asked why she stopped. She told me because of the moose. I said what moose! A full-grown bull moose was in the road in front of us, and I did not see him!

I have not had another drink of alcoholic beverage since then. Praise God that my darling was driving.

I have since learned that an alcoholic cannot control how much he/she drinks. That describes what I did that night. Therefore, I am quick to tell people that I am an alcoholic, and therefore refuse to start drinking.

Bill

 

My parents were grape farmers for several years. When I saw for the first time how wine was made I reponded by asking my dad, "How could anyone drink that stuff." I did not like the taste and especially when I saw it being made.

I really don't know of any grape farmers who are alcoholics. When I was around other farmers sometimes we would talk about how stupid the drunks were.

I had a friend who pastored in Germany for five 9 years and remarekd at how the folks where he was considered it foolish and taboo for a person to get drunk. Here in America it is almost celebrated among young people and parents.

 

I think that is true in every person with different areas of life. I have seen people get seriously hurt and even killed on jobs because they do not take safety measures and think they can handle the circumstances. We have had many pastors oveer the years aho get involved in extramarital affairs and it has sucked them in.

We should walk carefully and deliberately knowing as James says. We must stop immediately with sin and realize it can overtake any of us if we press on and massage it.

 

He'd say the same things he always did, since both of his sons turned into alcoholics. He was a failure as a father but not as a preacher, IMHO.

 

Scripture clearly says that wine is a blessing from God:

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Exd 29:40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.

Num 6:20 And the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD: this is holy for the priest, with the wave breast and heave shoulder: and after that the Nazarite may drink wine.

Deut 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Jdg 19:18-19 And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house. [19] Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.

1 Sam 16:20 And Jesse took an ass laden with bread, and a bottle of wine, and a kid, and sent them by David his son unto Saul.

Psa 104:14-15 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; [15] And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Prov 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Ecc 9:7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

Sgs 2:4 He brought me to the banqueting (03196) house, and his banner over me was love.

Sgs 5:1 I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.

Sgs 8:2 I would lead thee, and bring thee into my mother's house, who would instruct me: I would cause thee to drink of spiced wine of the juice of my pomegranate.

Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Jer 35:2 Go unto the house of the Rechabites, and speak unto them, and bring them into the house of the LORD, into one of the chambers, and give them wine to drink.

Also see:
- Isa 25:6 says the LORD himself will give a feast that includes wine.
- In Gen 14, the priest Melchizedek (a 'type' of Christ according to the NT) gave Moses bread and wine.
- Deut 14 says if the Israelites differentiate between clean and unclean animals (v2-31), tithe (v22) and live obediently (v23), they may spend their money on livestock, wine and strong drink, and eat and drink and rejoice before the LORD.
- Psalm 104:14-15 says God causes grass to grow for cattle, causes plants to grow for man, and that God gives man wine to make man's heart glad, and oil for his face, and bread to sustain him.
- Ecc 9:7 says the righteous can "Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works."
- Judges 9:13 says wine brings cheer to both man *and God*.
- Isa 55:1 compares God's mercy to free water, milk and wine.
- 1 Chr 12:40 and 2 Chr 31:5 includes wine in the list of abundance and joyful things for Israel
- Amos 9:13-15 prophesies about restoring Israel, when then can rebuild their cities and plant vineyards and drink wine.
- Deut 28 talks about God removing good things because of disobedience. The list of good things includes wine (v39)
- Song of Songs 5:1 talks of drinking wine as a celebration of love.
- Gen 27:28 speaks a blessing from God of dew from heaven, fatness from the earth, and an abundance of grain and wine.
- Deut 7:13 speaks of a blessing from God of children, grain and wine.
- Deut 11:14 speaks of a blessing from God of grain and wine and oil.
- Prov 3:9-10 says if we give to God, he will give to us, overflowing us with grain and wine.

However, like other blessings from God (food, money, sex, positions of authority, etc.) it can be misused and abused, and is sinful when used beyond what God intended it for. All the scriptures that people think are speaking against wine are really speaking against the abuse of wine. That said, I agree that those who choose not to drink it for whatever reason are doing the right thing for themselves.

 

He'd say the same things he always did, since both of his sons turned into alcoholics. He was a failure as a father but not as a preacher, IMHO. </font>[/QUOTE]He certainly did not meet the qualifications of an overseer. If he fails as a father then he fails the basic test of leading his home.

 

Well, when did they become alcoholic? Once they grow up and move out he is no longer responsible for their decisions.