Poll: Christian Liars Poll #1

I must admit that I had a hard time with this poll. The Bible paints a picture here that is vastly different from the picture that alot of modern evangelicalism and liberal protestantism paints. The Bible's position here is clear:

"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers an immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death" Rev 21:8

Notice that God, from the Throne (vs5-8), puts liars in the same catagory as murderers, those who commit abominations (ex: homosexuality), idolaters, and sorcerers. Not only that John states that all of these people will be cast into eternal hell. This verse tells us that God views lying as a very, very serious sin. In fact in Proverbs 6 God gives us a list of things He HATES. Interestingly enough lying appears on that list twice.

Vs 17: "a lying tongue"
Vs 19: "a false witness who utters lies"

God views lying as a very serious sin.


He repeats his condemnation of liars in verse 27 of the same chapter:

"and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life"

This verse answers some questions we may have about the first verse (ie. 21:8). Does God mean that if we commit one immoral act, or tell one lie that we are lost and condemned to hell? The answer in verse 27, and elsewhere in Scripture, is no. This is not talking about a person who tells a lie (etc). Rather this is talking about a person who "practices...lying" (vs27). As I stated this fits with the rest of Scripture (1Jn 3:9-10, 5:18, Gal 5:19-21, etc).

So the very idea that a person who practices lying can be a Christian is unBiblical. Can Christians tell lies? Yes. However if a person is consistantly telling lies that person should be warned that they are probably not saved (and thus will be cast into hell). Notice that in verse 27 there is a contrast. The one who "practices abomination and lying" will not enter God's Kingdom (see also 1Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, etc) but the ones "whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life" will enter God's Kingdom(vs27). This contrast is very interesting. It seems that those who practice these things do not have their name written in the Book of Life. I suppose that this should be clear since these people will suffer the second death (not life).

In Christ,
Martin.

 

So the very idea that a person who practices lying can be a Christian is unBiblical.

Interesting. I thought what made a person a Christian was faith in Christ.

 

==I think the point of passages like Rev 21:27 is that those who practice lying don't have faith in Christ. That is why their names are not in the book of Life.

Martin.

 

Martin,

Revelation 21:27 is part of the section describing the "new heaven" and the "new earth."

It is the section which explains that after the day of judgement, those who were cleansed by the blood of the lamb will enter into a new world where there is no sickness, death, tears, crying or pain.

As part of the description of the new heaven and the new earth it says that nothing unclean will enter there. That nothing which can defile the new heaven and new earth will enter in there.

I have no doubt that in that world there will NOT be any liars or defilers. We will have already been judged by the blood of Christ and changed for eternity. We will already be revealed.

Right now we will face death and pain and sorrow, even though we love Christ. Right now we still stumble and fall.

In the New Heaven and New Earth those parts of us that lead us into temptation will have been burned away. All that will be left will be what God declared or made pure.

For today - we are still part flesh and part spirit. The flesh is still prone to sin.

 

Re. Lying, When a pastor lies and does not repent, but is in a loop. The loop is using a lie to cover a lie and also casting aspersions.

What is the flock to do when the shepherd goes astray? Will the enemy attack or will he back off when he knows that some of the flock can and will invoke the Power of the Blood of Jesus to stop him from attacking ?

My faith is in the Power of the Blood of Jesus. We can stop satan in his tracks when we say to him "satan in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ flee from me" he can't stand up to that he departs from us, he has to!

I'm not saying we don't need a pastor, far from it! What I'm saying is: if the pastor falls we still have faith in Jesus. He will guide us through the roughest storm, nothing the enemy hurls at us can harm us.

God created pastors to lead the flock, pastors are humans just like everyone, they are not immune from the enemies firey darts. In fact they are subject to more attacks by satan because of their
position.

We need to hold our pastors up in prayer and ask Jesus to wrap the full armor of God around them.