Left behind

I believe scripture supports the doctrine of a post-tribulation rapture of the saints, in conjunction with the "Day of the Lord" or the 2nd Coming of our Lord Jesus.

Therefore, there is no conflict with "who" is preaching to those "left behind", because no one has been raptured prior to the tribulation.

 

canadyjd wrote,

I concur.

 

I concur.

</font>[/QUOTE]Ditto

 

==No agreement whatsoever.

Martin

 

There is no conflict here.

In Revelation it says that God will bring two witnesses back to earth in order to preach the gospel.....I believe this does not happen until the halfway mark, if I remember correctly.

I do not remember anywhere else that says that there will be other witnesses, besides the 144,000 Jews. Most pre-tribbers believe that people can indeed still be saved during the Tribulation....however, it will be a much more difficult thing to see occur. This is based on the fact that many MANY people will know what the Rapture is when it occurs, and having been left behind will realize that they missed it and will then call out to God for salvation. There will also still be forms of witnesses such as printed Bibles and tracts, video tapes of preaching, and now even Internet witnessing on record. People will still have "opportunity", they will just not have those others to "compel" them to answer GOd's call.

 

And remember, there are several groups that would most likely refuse to follow the Antichrist, even though these groups do not have the gospel. People who are just against dictators, Muslims would most likely hold out (unless the guy is a Muslim himself), even many of the cults would most likely "recognize" the antichrist as such.

So those who the Antichrist puts to death as unwilling to follow him, are not necessarily saved persons.

 

The Tribulations period

Understanding why events occur in scripture, is paramount to understanding the event it’s self.

Why is there a tribulation period, and why is there a pre tribulation rapture of the church?


The tribulation period is both a time of chastisement and of wrath.
Chastisement of Israel and wrath on those who “love not the truth”.

The tribulation period is the last week of the 70 weeks prophesied by Daniel, the church had no part in the first 69 weeks and neither does it have a part in the last week.

As stated previously, leadership by the Holy Ghost, which is the voice of Jesus, and being greater than Satan, must be taken out of the way, before the antichrist is revealed.

Israel will then return back under the leadership of the law and prophets, the two witnesses, plus the 144000, during the tribulations.

But first, let’s understand the circumstances.

God made man from the Dust of the earth, then told Satan he would eat dust.

Genesis 2 7,
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

Genesis 3 14,
And the LORD God said unto the serpent, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life

God gave Flesh to Satan for his bread of life, in the same sense, Jesus is the bread of life for believers.


Now, let’s look at what Paul wrote to the church.

first Corinthians 5 1,
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you,

first Corinthians 5 5,
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


This fornication can be either physical or spiritual, as in whoring after other gods,
Israel’s rejection of Jesus and the Holy Ghost constitutes this spiritual fornication.


The following verses explains why/how God chastises Israel.

Psalms 89 20,

I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him.

verse 28,
My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.


God said he would chastise Israel with the rod and many stripes,

but what is the rod and stripes?

Isaiah 10 5,
O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

O Assyrian, represents the antichrist,
and the staff represents authority in the hands of the antichrist and Satan, or dominion over the world.

When Moses and Arron cast down their rod to the earth, the rods turned into serpents, and the rod God uses to chastise Israel will also turn into a serpent, Satan,

Exodus 4 2,
And the LORD said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod.
And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent;

Revelations 12 9,
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12 13,
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The woman is Israel, the man child is Jesus.

God does to Israel exactly what Paul wrote for the church to do.

first Corinthians 5 5,
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


Jesus suffer the chastisement and stripes for the church in his flesh, but since Israel rejected Jesus, their flesh will suffer the STRIPES of abuse, torture and death at the hands of the AC.

Isaiah 53 5,
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Jesus asked the question,

Mark 10 38,
can ye drink of the cup that I drink of?

This cup was the same cup he ask to pass from him if possible in the garden, his death for our salvation.

Matthew 26 39,
O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me:

The church drinks of Jesus’s cup when we spiritually crucify the flesh.

Romans 6 6,
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,

But during the tribulation, anyone confessing Jesus, and refusing to worship the beast image, will literally be put to death, that is, they must be willing to physically die for Jesus’s salvation.

Revelations 13 15,
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Revelation 6 9,
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were
slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Confessing Jesus during the tribulation will result in the execution of the flesh.

Revelations 12 11,
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,
and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lifes unto the death.

The church spiritually drinks of Jesus cup,
but Israel will literally drink of his cup.

This is the difference between Jesus bearing the chastisement and stripes in his flesh for
the church and Israel having to bear the chastisement and stripe in their own flesh.


And it is the reason the church does not have to suffer the tribulation period, but are rapture before the tribulation begins.

 

But I didn't answer your original question, "who will be left to "preach the gospel"??

Isa 30:26 Moreover the light of the MOON=Assemble of God's people, Gentiles/Jews in this case.

shall be as the light of the SUN=Jesus

, and the light of the sun shall be SEVENFOLD=seven spirits of God,

as the light of seven days,

IN THE DAY=trib period that the LORD

BINDETH UP THE BREACH=divorce from Israel

of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

Re 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God,

All of God's "Spirits" will be "FOCUSED" on Israel during the trib, however, the AC will still be allowed to "prevail", as their "Chastisement".

Da 7:21 I beheld, and the "same horn" (AC) made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

 

I believe that most of Revelation should be interpreted as symbolism. I believe that Christ is returning ONCE in all His power and glory, not 3 or 4 times.

 

Like all people, you're free to believe anything you "LIKE",

but there's only ONE BIBLE, ONE TEACHER, (Comforter) and ONE TRUTH.

Becoming "dogmatic" before you understand it, isn't "wise", for "ANYONE".

"Humble as a child" is the only way the "TEACHER" will teach.

 

Straight and Narrow,

no one said that Jesus would be returning 3 or 4 times....or even twice. The idea that pre-tribbers believe in 2 future comings of Christ is in the least a mistake, in the worst a gross misrepresentation.

The rapture is not a coming of Christ, it is CHristians leaving the earth. Christ does not come to earth at that point, according to pre-trib beliefs.

 

Right, In the "rapture", (Day of Christ) JESUS REAPS, we meet him "in the air", the "RIGHTEOUS" leave the earth, the "UNSAVED" remain for the trib.

At his "Second coming", (Day of the Lord)the "ANGELS REAP", the "UNSAVED" leave the earth, the "RIGHTEOUS" remain for the MK.

Exact "Opposites".

 

Just a quick thought, I wonder how the rapture will effect baptistboard?

My beliefs?
I grew up pre-trib, I am now moving toward mid-trib, who knows? One day I may be post-trib. That is of course if the rapture doesn't happen yet. Oh Well, back to pre-trib.

 

==No agreement whatsoever.

Martin </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with Martin. 1 Thes. 5:9 is just one verse that supports a pre-trib rapture of the church.

 

Pre trib vs. post trib, Once saved always saved vs. Not OSAS, half full vs. half empty, King James vs. New King James hmmmm.... I can't wait to actually know the answers to these questions.

The good thing, however, is God knows and rest assured whether there is pre trib or post trib I will be there when God tells me it is time to go. Until then I am going to rest on the words of Jesus Christ and not worry about it.

 

I hope all the this pretrib TEACHING doesn’t persuade anyone to go flying off to the wrong guy and be fornicators with him because when the real Christ does come He wouldn’t be very happy to see His wanna be brides with child;

(Mar 13:5) And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

(Mar 13:6) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

(2Th 2:3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first , and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Oh, you mean the verse that follows 5:8 instructing to put on the armor spoken of in Ephesians 6 that we may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil who will come after we’re gone???

(1Th 5:8) But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.

Is this not the cornerstone pre-trib verse for escaping outa here?

(1Th 4:17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Which follows this subject:

(1Th 3:13) To the end he may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

And follows these warnings of fornication and words of being prepared:

(1Th 4:3) For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

(1Th 4:4) That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor;

(1Th 4:5) Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

(1Th 4:6) That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

And this forewarning:

(Mar 13:13) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And as a result of this fornication:

(Mar 13:17) But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

(Mar 13:22) For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce , if it were possible, even the elect.

(1Ti 1:4) Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies , which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

(1Ti 1:5) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

(1Ti 1:6) From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

(1Ti 1:7) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Couldn’t resist adding my 2 cents. Have a nice early flight if you “LIKE” but remember what Jesus said:


(Mar 13:23) But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

AND

(Mar 13:32) But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

[ October 31, 2005, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]