Prophecynut, I see you had no comment about Jeremiah 33 where God reiterates His promise concerning David. remember that God gave these words to Jeremiah(as well as what He gave Ezekiel concerning Zedekiah & the throne itself) shortly before He caused Nebuchadnezzar to take out jerusalem and Zedekiah. We know Jerry lived through this, and most likely Zeke did also, as he was already in Babylon with the first group of exiles from Judah.
Please read Psalm 89 CAREFULLY, as you seem to have lost the context again. here, David is referring to the time of his punishment of being chased from his throne by Absalom. Remember, Ps. 89 is a maskil written by Ethan the Ezrahite, but most certainly approved (and perhaps performed) by David. Unlike some Psalms, this is not a prophecy, but it does repeat God's prophecy to David about his dynasty.
I have consulted with several Hebrew experts who agree that Ezekiel 21:27 says God will overturn(Not destroy nor place in hiatus) the throne 3 times. If it's anything but active & occupied, how could He do that? And what about His saying, "Abase that which is high and exalt that which is low"? I believe Judah & the Solomon-Zedekiah line was "that which was high" while the rest of Israel and other descendants of David was "that which is low". And the title of the ruler doesn't hafta be "king". It could be "Prime Minister" or "Big Kahoona" or any other title long as RULERSHIP was there. QE2 doesn't actually rule England, but she's held in high honor & recognized as royal by the British.
And what about the birthright promise? It IS separate from the rulership. Remember, the rulership is Judah's, but the birthright is Joseph's. God's birthright promise of material wealth is just as valid and powerful as His promise of the Savior. He made BOTH promises to Abraham. Who are WE, to ignore one because we couldn't see its fulfillment, just as the most of the Jews of Jerusalem couldn't see Jesus as the Messiah? We need to go back and CAREFULLY read God's promises to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and Joseph.
Has there ever been an empire even remotely close to having the size, wealth, & power of the British Empire? remember, the British gained their empire in much the same way as other empire-builders did...some by battle, but mostly be negotiation. Sargon, Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander, & other "conquerors" used more negotiation than battle. The smaller nations, when confronted by the empires, thought it advantageous to simply join the empire & enjoy its collective benefits. Thus was the building of the British Empire.
And has there ever been a nation like the USA, with its combination of power, size, resources, & wealth? our forefathers recognized it was the FAVOR OF GOD to bestow all on them.
Are there any other nations that have apparently received the Ephraim-Manasseh blessings, whose peoples are for the most part closely-related, who speak the same language & have many of the same customs & mannerisms?
I'm not ruling out any future fulfillments, of course, that would make GB & the USA look like trial runs, but such fulfillment is now only conjecture and we must run with what's before us.
No, I'm not trying to start any new doctrine nor support an older false one. As Baptists, we believe ALL of our bibles, right? What I'm pointing out are things not disbelieved by the brethren, but often overlooked. An example is the above-mentioned verses in Jeremiah and Ezekiel...we haven't disbelieved them; we've merely not considered them very closely because when we first read them we assumed they were about only the ancient kingdom & kings of Judah. A real eye-opener for me has been the rapid rise of modern Judah to military-pre-emenince over all her neighbors together. IF THIS ISN'T GOD'S WORK, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!!! This was prophesied in Scripture, and I firmly believe that EVERY OTHER PROPHECY about Israel and Judah has or will come to pass! THEY'RE ALL IN YOUR OWN BIBLES!
We Americans have often attributed our blessings to GOD, but without seeking the reasons God has so blessed us. And despite all the decadence and evil today, the USA still has far more true churches, pastors and Christians per capita than any other nation has ever had.
C4K, I believe there are too many websites that paint such a distorted pic that they lead people to not believe or to overlook what Scripture REALLY says, just as Herbie Armstrong's junk did. And I believe history shows that there were a native Irish people whose origins are not recorded far as we know, who were attacked by immigrants from across the sea who eventually mingled with those natives to become the ancestors of today's Gaols.(Help me if I'm too sketchy, Roger!) Now, some of these Gaols themselves have legends that those natives had come from Israel many generations before the invaders, who were mostly early Vikings, had come. And I think we all know that virtually every ancient legend has at least SOME truth to it.
We must bear in mind that if it's in Scripture, it HAS to be true! However, some of our INTERPRETATIONS thereof could be wrong, including mine. I DO try to follow the rule of understanding prophecy that says to LOOK FOR THE OBVIOUS, LITERAL fulfillment first. JESUS reminds us to do that! He LITERALLY fulfilled all the Scriptures concerning His first coming.
As for the Jews ruling the USA, there ARE many Jews in prominent govt. positions. Besides such obvious examples as Lieberman and Cohen, ya might wanna look into some govt. registries to see who many of the faceless bureaucrats are. You'll see more Cohens as well as Goldman, Barak Greenburg, etc. for last names, as well as Moshe, Jael(Yael), Yitzhak, Ariel, Ehud, etc. for first names. Now while ALL the people with such names may not be Jews, MOST are. They make up about 10% of of the lists I've read.
Is that a bad thing ? NOT AT ALL! Almost all those Jews are honest, intelligent, hard-working people, the type we wish ALL our officials were!
So, lemme ask: Why should GB & the USA NOT be largely the descendants of Joseph? Why should the British royal line NOT be the descendants of David?
As for the "Edomites" ruling today, please note that Scripture says they are to vanish, to not be a people any more. The last definite Edomites we know of are the Herods, and not too long after Jesus' earthly time, their descendants were lost to history, most likely intermarrying with the Romans as the Herods were, thus vanishing from history as the rest of Edom did. Now, before anyone hollers that there's just as much evidence that the Edomites still exist same as there is for the ten tribes of Israel still existing, just remember that God has plainly fulfilled the start of the prophecies for the Jews, and thus we should believe He is fulfilling, or will fulfill, all His prophecies about the rest of Israel and for Edom.
Another one He's fulfilled...the restoration of Elam. So as not to get off topic here, anyone interested in Elam, please do a Google search to see whom whey were/are. Al;so, bear in mind that God's gonna restore Moab, Ammon, & some other of ancient Israel's neighbors and relatives.
Thanx for everyone's input so far. As I said earlier, I maintain an open mind as to whom is, or shall, be the people in whom God is fulfilling, or shall fulfill His prophecies, but my mind is CLOSED to the idea that those prophecies WON'T be fulfilled, if they're not already.
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