England & the USA

Prophecynut, I see you had no comment about Jeremiah 33 where God reiterates His promise concerning David. remember that God gave these words to Jeremiah(as well as what He gave Ezekiel concerning Zedekiah & the throne itself) shortly before He caused Nebuchadnezzar to take out jerusalem and Zedekiah. We know Jerry lived through this, and most likely Zeke did also, as he was already in Babylon with the first group of exiles from Judah.

Please read Psalm 89 CAREFULLY, as you seem to have lost the context again. here, David is referring to the time of his punishment of being chased from his throne by Absalom. Remember, Ps. 89 is a maskil written by Ethan the Ezrahite, but most certainly approved (and perhaps performed) by David. Unlike some Psalms, this is not a prophecy, but it does repeat God's prophecy to David about his dynasty.

I have consulted with several Hebrew experts who agree that Ezekiel 21:27 says God will overturn(Not destroy nor place in hiatus) the throne 3 times. If it's anything but active & occupied, how could He do that? And what about His saying, "Abase that which is high and exalt that which is low"? I believe Judah & the Solomon-Zedekiah line was "that which was high" while the rest of Israel and other descendants of David was "that which is low". And the title of the ruler doesn't hafta be "king". It could be "Prime Minister" or "Big Kahoona" or any other title long as RULERSHIP was there. QE2 doesn't actually rule England, but she's held in high honor & recognized as royal by the British.

And what about the birthright promise? It IS separate from the rulership. Remember, the rulership is Judah's, but the birthright is Joseph's. God's birthright promise of material wealth is just as valid and powerful as His promise of the Savior. He made BOTH promises to Abraham. Who are WE, to ignore one because we couldn't see its fulfillment, just as the most of the Jews of Jerusalem couldn't see Jesus as the Messiah? We need to go back and CAREFULLY read God's promises to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and Joseph.

Has there ever been an empire even remotely close to having the size, wealth, & power of the British Empire? remember, the British gained their empire in much the same way as other empire-builders did...some by battle, but mostly be negotiation. Sargon, Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander, & other "conquerors" used more negotiation than battle. The smaller nations, when confronted by the empires, thought it advantageous to simply join the empire & enjoy its collective benefits. Thus was the building of the British Empire.

And has there ever been a nation like the USA, with its combination of power, size, resources, & wealth? our forefathers recognized it was the FAVOR OF GOD to bestow all on them.

Are there any other nations that have apparently received the Ephraim-Manasseh blessings, whose peoples are for the most part closely-related, who speak the same language & have many of the same customs & mannerisms?

I'm not ruling out any future fulfillments, of course, that would make GB & the USA look like trial runs, but such fulfillment is now only conjecture and we must run with what's before us.

No, I'm not trying to start any new doctrine nor support an older false one. As Baptists, we believe ALL of our bibles, right? What I'm pointing out are things not disbelieved by the brethren, but often overlooked. An example is the above-mentioned verses in Jeremiah and Ezekiel...we haven't disbelieved them; we've merely not considered them very closely because when we first read them we assumed they were about only the ancient kingdom & kings of Judah. A real eye-opener for me has been the rapid rise of modern Judah to military-pre-emenince over all her neighbors together. IF THIS ISN'T GOD'S WORK, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!!! This was prophesied in Scripture, and I firmly believe that EVERY OTHER PROPHECY about Israel and Judah has or will come to pass! THEY'RE ALL IN YOUR OWN BIBLES!


We Americans have often attributed our blessings to GOD, but without seeking the reasons God has so blessed us. And despite all the decadence and evil today, the USA still has far more true churches, pastors and Christians per capita than any other nation has ever had.

C4K, I believe there are too many websites that paint such a distorted pic that they lead people to not believe or to overlook what Scripture REALLY says, just as Herbie Armstrong's junk did. And I believe history shows that there were a native Irish people whose origins are not recorded far as we know, who were attacked by immigrants from across the sea who eventually mingled with those natives to become the ancestors of today's Gaols.(Help me if I'm too sketchy, Roger!) Now, some of these Gaols themselves have legends that those natives had come from Israel many generations before the invaders, who were mostly early Vikings, had come. And I think we all know that virtually every ancient legend has at least SOME truth to it.

We must bear in mind that if it's in Scripture, it HAS to be true! However, some of our INTERPRETATIONS thereof could be wrong, including mine. I DO try to follow the rule of understanding prophecy that says to LOOK FOR THE OBVIOUS, LITERAL fulfillment first. JESUS reminds us to do that! He LITERALLY fulfilled all the Scriptures concerning His first coming.

As for the Jews ruling the USA, there ARE many Jews in prominent govt. positions. Besides such obvious examples as Lieberman and Cohen, ya might wanna look into some govt. registries to see who many of the faceless bureaucrats are. You'll see more Cohens as well as Goldman, Barak Greenburg, etc. for last names, as well as Moshe, Jael(Yael), Yitzhak, Ariel, Ehud, etc. for first names. Now while ALL the people with such names may not be Jews, MOST are. They make up about 10% of of the lists I've read.

Is that a bad thing ? NOT AT ALL! Almost all those Jews are honest, intelligent, hard-working people, the type we wish ALL our officials were!

So, lemme ask: Why should GB & the USA NOT be largely the descendants of Joseph? Why should the British royal line NOT be the descendants of David?

As for the "Edomites" ruling today, please note that Scripture says they are to vanish, to not be a people any more. The last definite Edomites we know of are the Herods, and not too long after Jesus' earthly time, their descendants were lost to history, most likely intermarrying with the Romans as the Herods were, thus vanishing from history as the rest of Edom did. Now, before anyone hollers that there's just as much evidence that the Edomites still exist same as there is for the ten tribes of Israel still existing, just remember that God has plainly fulfilled the start of the prophecies for the Jews, and thus we should believe He is fulfilling, or will fulfill, all His prophecies about the rest of Israel and for Edom.

Another one He's fulfilled...the restoration of Elam. So as not to get off topic here, anyone interested in Elam, please do a Google search to see whom whey were/are. Al;so, bear in mind that God's gonna restore Moab, Ammon, & some other of ancient Israel's neighbors and relatives.

Thanx for everyone's input so far. As I said earlier, I maintain an open mind as to whom is, or shall, be the people in whom God is fulfilling, or shall fulfill His prophecies, but my mind is CLOSED to the idea that those prophecies WON'T be fulfilled, if they're not already.

 

Not to mention Japanese native apparel or Indian apparel, both Asian and American!

As I said, there are so many such spurious sources of "info" that the TRUTH is completely covered! A simple search of Scottish history shows us the MAIN source of their ancestry is the Picts, known as the Cruithni to the Celts. Their language had come from ancient Gaelic, but during most recorded history, they periodically fought with the Gaols. They couldn't conquer the Celts nor the Gaols, but in turn couldn't be conquered by the Celts, Gaols, nor Romans; thus the areas now inhabited by the various nations of the British Isles was loosely established.(Later, 'Pict' became a Roman name for any native of the British Isles.)

 

Actually, Brian's forces won the battle of Clontarf, but Brian was slain; it was the customs of both irish and Vikings for the leaders to seek each other out and fight to the death in single combat. Often, both men died. Thus, not only Brian, but mosta the leaders on both sides were slain.

Each side had Vikings; the Vikes had factions same as did the Irish. Brian's chief opponent, Sigtrygg, stayed outta the battle!(He also had some Danes on his side. They, along with the Vikes, stayed in Ireland & were slowly absorbed into the Irish people.)

This is an interesting conversation, Roger! The conquest of ireland in 1169 was actually ordered by POPE Hadrian IV: his order is preserved in the "Bull Laudabiliter". More tomorrow, God willing...Gotta go ta work!(3-11 shift)

 

As we dig deep into early Irish history, we see two sons of Milesius, a king of what is now Spain, arriving in what's now Ireland, establishing a rule over some of the locals. These sons were named Herremon and Heber. Later, Herremon killed Heber & his wife in battle, and reigned alone as the most powerful local lord in Ireland, especially after he defeated the tuatha De Danaans in several battles. During his time, a group of colonists called the Cruthneans by the early Irish, later known as the Picts, arrived in Ireland and requested Herremon allow them to live there. Instead, he directed them to what is now Scotland, gave them the widows of the Tuatha De Danaans slain in battle, and made them swear allegiance to his kingdom. THE ORIGIN OF THE CRUTHNEANS IS NOT KNOWN, and the time of Herremon has been reckoned anywhere from C. 1600 BC to C.1000 BC.
The SUPPOSED(not set in stone) genealogy of Herremon's father Milesius is:
Noah
Japheth
Magog
Boath(became king of Scythia)
Finius Farsa(Built a great school in Scythia)
Niul(Some say he & his fatherhelped with the Tower of Babel and were present when God gave the different languages.)Niul was invited by a Pharaoh to live near the Red Sea, and he accepted. He was given Pharaoh's daughter Scota in marriage. He often met with the Israelis in Egypt and later supported them in later skirmishes with Egypt after the Exodus. He employed a scholar named Gaolhal to refine the language God gave him; this language was later called Gaelic after Gaolhal. Niul also named his firstborn son Gaolhal after the scholar.
Niul's son was healed of a snake bite by God through Moses, but it left a green scar, so he was called Gaolhal Glas(green) from then on.
His son was Asruth.
Sruth(Driven out of Egypt for supporting Israel. He and his followers arrived at Crete.)
Heber Scut(Went to scythia & conquered his cousing who ruled it, but was in turn killed by his cousin Noemus)
Baouman was Heber's son. he, hus son, and grandson were all kings of Scythia. Their names were Ogaman and Tait.
Tait's son was Agmon, who left Scythia to sail the Caspian Sea. His son was Lamhfionn, who arrived in Lybia. A Druid, Cachear, told him his people would wander for 300 years till they reached the Western island of Europe.
Heber Glunfionn(Became king of Lybia)
Agnan Fionn
Febric Glas
Nenuall
Alladh
Arcadh
Deag
Brath(who, remembering Cachear's prophecy, sailed for the Western Islands. Mistaking the Iberian Peninsuls for the British Isles, he landed there, establishing a colony near what's now Galicia. His son Breoghan conquered most of what's now Portugal and sent a colony into what's now England. His sone Bile succeeded him as king while his brother Milesius became an adventurer.
Milesius eventually returned to Spain, but found that his brother Bile had died, and foreigners had overrun the land. Milesius eventually re-conquered his father's former kingdom, but a drought/famine ensued. Milesius believed this was caused because he hadn't sought the Western Islands as Cachear had prophesied, & the 300 years were almost expired. He organized an expedition to what's now Ireland, under his uncle Ithe. When Ithe was slain by the Tuatha De Danaans, Milesius organized a strong force to invade Ireland, but he died before he could launch it. However his 8 sons carried on with the plan; five of them were lost in a storm. the three who arrived safely were Herremon, Heber, & Amergin. There were three rulers of the land at the time whom Herremon & friends defeated & killed.

Given the convoluted history of the "Milesian" kings after Herremon, & the unknown pre-Ireland history of the Cruthneans, it's quite possible for some Israelites to have been in the mix. Perhaps God is keeping the facts hidden for now, for His own reasons. But we certainly have no grounds to totally dismiss the possibility that the British monarch is a descendant of David's.