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Is Harry Potter and Narnia good for the church?
- Thread starter Boanerges
- Start date
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Filmproducer
Guest
First of all, Disney is not the church, they are a secular company. I would not expect them to make a biblical stand.
Secondly, how does Disney stop people from wearing red shirts to the park? Why would Disney turn away 40-50 thousand paying visitors, because they decided to wear red shirts? Again, what can Disney do to stop them?
Secondly, how does Disney stop people from wearing red shirts to the park? Why would Disney turn away 40-50 thousand paying visitors, because they decided to wear red shirts? Again, what can Disney do to stop them?
I took the worst case most far our things about the movie and disney, and worked them for a reason. Now let's look at all of the obvious problems with disney (magic etc), and then all of its defenders can answer me why any Christian should give money to that organization to see an allegory that might resemble Christ or anyone else that you wish to see in it? Jesus is standing in plain sight in the Bible people. It is all so insane, in the church's lust to be "entertained". 
eloidalmanutha
New Member
Filmproducer wrote:
"First of all, Disney is not the church, they are a secular company. I would not expect them to make a biblical stand."
I am curious then, how a secular company that does not take a Biblical stand makes a movie that is supposed to be a Biblical stand?
"First of all, Disney is not the church, they are a secular company. I would not expect them to make a biblical stand."
I am curious then, how a secular company that does not take a Biblical stand makes a movie that is supposed to be a Biblical stand?
eloidalmanutha
New Member
I have a couple of other observations for those of you who believe that Narnia is an allegory for Jesus.
#1 Jesus lay down his life willingly and commended His Spirit to the Father. [John 10:17, Mark 23:46] In the movie the white witch [evil/satan] took a rather large knife and thrust it through aslan [allegorical Jesus]and killed him.
#2 In Col 2:14,15 Paul states that Jesus was made victorious over satan on the cross. In the movie, aslan [allegorical Jesus] overcomes the white witch [evil/satan] after he rises from the dead with a little help from his friends.
So what part of the movie is the allegorical gospel message??????
#1 Jesus lay down his life willingly and commended His Spirit to the Father. [John 10:17, Mark 23:46] In the movie the white witch [evil/satan] took a rather large knife and thrust it through aslan [allegorical Jesus]and killed him.
#2 In Col 2:14,15 Paul states that Jesus was made victorious over satan on the cross. In the movie, aslan [allegorical Jesus] overcomes the white witch [evil/satan] after he rises from the dead with a little help from his friends.
So what part of the movie is the allegorical gospel message??????
C.S. Lewis did not write The Narnia Chronicles as an allegory. There were certain themes that resonated with the biblical record, but he refused to write allegory. (Tolkein — a thoroughgoing allegorist — took him to task over that, but it was to no effect.)
Lewis only wrote one allegory — which was not for children — and decided never to do it again. It was, in fact, the book he said he was least pleased with writing.
Lewis only wrote one allegory — which was not for children — and decided never to do it again. It was, in fact, the book he said he was least pleased with writing.
eloidalmanutha
New Member
rsr wrote:
" C.S. Lewis did not write The Narnia Chronicles as an allegory. There were certain themes that resonated with the biblical record, but he refused to write allegory. (Tolkein — a thoroughgoing allegorist — took him to task over that, but it was to no effect.)"
my original statement:
"I have a couple of other observations for those of you who believe that Narnia is an allegory for Jesus."
quotes from this thread:
"As for the Narnia series, I can't see how it is bad for Christianity since Christian imagery is dripping from many of the books. I loved it as a child and look forward with anticipation to the films.
"I think Narnia has some Christian allegories ......"
"One time through "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" as a young man and I knew it was an allegory of Christ's sacrifice."
" C.S. Lewis did not write The Narnia Chronicles as an allegory. There were certain themes that resonated with the biblical record, but he refused to write allegory. (Tolkein — a thoroughgoing allegorist — took him to task over that, but it was to no effect.)"
my original statement:
"I have a couple of other observations for those of you who believe that Narnia is an allegory for Jesus."
quotes from this thread:
"As for the Narnia series, I can't see how it is bad for Christianity since Christian imagery is dripping from many of the books. I loved it as a child and look forward with anticipation to the films.
"I think Narnia has some Christian allegories ......"
"One time through "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" as a young man and I knew it was an allegory of Christ's sacrifice."
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
Other sweetmeats that have served on occasion as vehicles for cannabis include cupcakes, muffins and brownies as mentioned.
eloidalmanutha:
Imagery, yes. Allegory, no, at least not in the sense that Lewis (most of the time) defined it. (It was a subject he knew something about because his most significant academic — and secular — work was, in fact, about allegory.)
Almost all extended allegories become strained upon too close examination, and Lewis avoided that. (Except in the one instance I described previously.) That some parts of the Chronicles are allegorical cannot be disputed, although I would prefer to call them symbolic rather than allegorical.
In what way does Asland resemble Christ? Well, only weakly in a strictly allegorical sense, although that is possible. Symbolically (the Lion of Judah and his death and resurrection, obviously come to mind), but allegorical only in the sense that the tale and the character provide some insight into the reality of the biblical story.
To stretch such imagery into a strict allegorical rendition of the Incarnation, however, is to go beyond Lewis' intent and to, as he said, indulge in the "the pernicious habit of reading allegory as if it were a cryptogram to be translated."
Lewis probably was writing to an audience that had at least at rudimetnary knowlege of Bible stories; Narnia became a place where such stories could be examined from a different perspective — from a child's perspective, in particular — but would not replace those stories or try to neatly fit all the symbolism into a tight package.
"I did not say to myself 'Let us represent Jesus as He really is in our world by a Lion in Narnia'; I said 'Let us suppose that there were a land like Narnia and that the Son of God, as he became a Man in our world, became a Lion there, and then imagine what would happen'."
Imagery, yes. Allegory, no, at least not in the sense that Lewis (most of the time) defined it. (It was a subject he knew something about because his most significant academic — and secular — work was, in fact, about allegory.)
Almost all extended allegories become strained upon too close examination, and Lewis avoided that. (Except in the one instance I described previously.) That some parts of the Chronicles are allegorical cannot be disputed, although I would prefer to call them symbolic rather than allegorical.
In what way does Asland resemble Christ? Well, only weakly in a strictly allegorical sense, although that is possible. Symbolically (the Lion of Judah and his death and resurrection, obviously come to mind), but allegorical only in the sense that the tale and the character provide some insight into the reality of the biblical story.
To stretch such imagery into a strict allegorical rendition of the Incarnation, however, is to go beyond Lewis' intent and to, as he said, indulge in the "the pernicious habit of reading allegory as if it were a cryptogram to be translated."
Lewis probably was writing to an audience that had at least at rudimetnary knowlege of Bible stories; Narnia became a place where such stories could be examined from a different perspective — from a child's perspective, in particular — but would not replace those stories or try to neatly fit all the symbolism into a tight package.
"I did not say to myself 'Let us represent Jesus as He really is in our world by a Lion in Narnia'; I said 'Let us suppose that there were a land like Narnia and that the Son of God, as he became a Man in our world, became a Lion there, and then imagine what would happen'."
The key word here is imagination!!! Imagine IF--Imagine what would happen . . .
Too many want to "imagine" Narnia right into the Bible---just like too many tried to "imagine" Gibson's "Passion" there!!! Too many see a movie---read a fictional book and say, "It must be so!!"
eloidalmanutha
New Member
rsr,
The director of the movie and the actors/actresses refer to Narnia as allegorical. Christians refer to the book and movie as allegorical. This is the point of my statement. CS Lewis has no control over the movie, his original intent or how people perceive it. It has now become a Disney thing and always will remain so. Disney is a secular company and has zero regard for the Holy Word of God.
The Chronicles of Narnia have long been referred to as allegory of the Gospel since I first read them over 30 years ago. God does not use fantasy, witchcraft, magic, and violence to proclaim the Gospel message. Jesus stands alone as Savior. To say that TCoN is in any way allegorical of or have imagery to promote Biblical Truth, is to be standing in willful deception.
The director of the movie and the actors/actresses refer to Narnia as allegorical. Christians refer to the book and movie as allegorical. This is the point of my statement. CS Lewis has no control over the movie, his original intent or how people perceive it. It has now become a Disney thing and always will remain so. Disney is a secular company and has zero regard for the Holy Word of God.
The Chronicles of Narnia have long been referred to as allegory of the Gospel since I first read them over 30 years ago. God does not use fantasy, witchcraft, magic, and violence to proclaim the Gospel message. Jesus stands alone as Savior. To say that TCoN is in any way allegorical of or have imagery to promote Biblical Truth, is to be standing in willful deception.
eloidalmanutha
New Member
Perhaps Luke's mentioning of the violent Herod the Great, plus the mentioning of astrology pertaining to Jesus' birth, were figments of my imagination. I suppose the crucufuxion of Jesus was also devoid of violence.
You're stretching here, methinks. </font>[/QUOTE]"Mentioning" Herod the Great and his violent acts is way different than describing them in detail and playacting them on the silver screen. There is also a vast difference between astronomy [study of the universe, stars, and planets] and astology [application of the movement of stars and planets as they relate to human behavior and circumstances in a mystical way].
God chose to place the star in the sky for a specific reason, which He tells us in His Word - was a sign, just as the angels were a sign of the birth of Jesus - He did not need psychics/astrologists and a movie to "intrepret" His purpose
Witches, witchcraft, magic, fantasy, and violence are an abomination to God. Or maybe christians just think that because He is a God of Love, He winks at the "means to an end".
If you think scripture is devoid of violence, you're completely naive. Not to mention, you would have us believe that any movie or passion play that depicts the crucicixion is hereby wrong, since crucifixion is inhierently violent.
The wise men in scriptuer were astrologers, not astronomers. They looked at the stars and looked for metaphysical meanings.
I'm not disputing that (although, it was most likely a planetary conjunction as we understand it). But what is also not in dispute is that the wise men were astrologers.
So is a proud look and sowing discord among the brethren, which, imo, you're attempting to do by misapplying scripture so selectively.
eloidalmanutha
New Member
You make me smile, John - not that I like to quote shakespeare - but .... "thou doth protest too much" - which means that the truth keeps pricking your conscience, and you keep pushing it away.
Deut 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that uses divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD your God does drive them out from before you.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, worldy jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Deut 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that uses divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD your God does drive them out from before you.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, worldy jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
eloidalmanutha
New Member
JohnV wrote:
"If you think scripture is devoid of violence, you're completely naive. Not to mention, you would have us believe that any movie or passion play that depicts the crucicixion is hereby wrong, since crucifixion is inhierently violent."
Did I say the scripture was devoid of violence? And yes, any movie or passion play that depicts the crucifixion is wrong - because it is not necessary to improve upon and speculate on God's Word.
The Scriptures give us little graphic detail of the suffering and death of Jesus Christ. Other than the gospels, and some prophetic passages like Isaiah, there is little to no further mention of these details. The Gospel does not dwell on the facts of His death, but on the resurrection and His second coming.
"If you think scripture is devoid of violence, you're completely naive. Not to mention, you would have us believe that any movie or passion play that depicts the crucicixion is hereby wrong, since crucifixion is inhierently violent."
Did I say the scripture was devoid of violence? And yes, any movie or passion play that depicts the crucifixion is wrong - because it is not necessary to improve upon and speculate on God's Word.
The Scriptures give us little graphic detail of the suffering and death of Jesus Christ. Other than the gospels, and some prophetic passages like Isaiah, there is little to no further mention of these details. The Gospel does not dwell on the facts of His death, but on the resurrection and His second coming.
buckster75
Member
I will give my answer to the question I believe to be: "Is Harry Potter and Narnia good for the church?" and try not to get to far off topic.
No they are not good for the church.
No they are not good for the church.
eloidalmanutha
New Member
JohnV wrote:
"The wise men in scriptuer were astrologers, not astronomers. They looked at the stars and looked for metaphysical meanings."
Yes, John, the wisemen were astrologers that followed the star, that God had put in the sky [astronomy]. He moved them to follow that star to find Jesus, the King of kings, and to worship Him. Are you contending that satan used his imitation [astrology] to conjur up the whole process?
"The wise men in scriptuer were astrologers, not astronomers. They looked at the stars and looked for metaphysical meanings."
Yes, John, the wisemen were astrologers that followed the star, that God had put in the sky [astronomy]. He moved them to follow that star to find Jesus, the King of kings, and to worship Him. Are you contending that satan used his imitation [astrology] to conjur up the whole process?