Taking Merry Christmas out of greetings

Since the topic of the OP was in regards to the ACLU and private companies, I shall limits my comments to that end (lest the thread become hijacked). The poster claimed that the ACLU is responsible for private business from saying "Merry Christmas". When asked for support, and when given at least one example that refutes the OP, I and several others were called "liberals".

It does indeed appear that the contention of the OP is false. Thep poster has yet to acknowlege the falsity, or provide support for the statements of the OP.

 

Just because they have not been successful yet doesn't mean that they aren't trying. I think that looking at their "successes" with public sector jobs is a good indicator of where things are headed.The ACLU has won some cases against private companies in other areas, in which they should have no bearing.

 

HoG, you're missing the point. The OP made a false statement. It's wrong for us Christians to engage in the speaking of rumor, falsehood, and gossip of others. Just because the subject of rumor, falsehood, and gossip is an enemy, that doesn't make it acceptible behavior for the Christian.

 

I agree with you, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a valid discussion concerning the ACLU, with the fallacies straightened out.

 

Bruren, I'm as anti-ACLU as they come. That's why I'm trying to keep the discussion going around the truth of what the ACLU does.

Spreading half-truths and lies (even if unintentional) does nothing to further a cause. If your argument is righteous, then why not use the truth?

There are many truths that Christians damage themselves over because of things such as this.

 

I have a noval thought. Why don't all of us wish a Merry Christmas to everyone we come into contact with? I assure you no one will get thrown in jail or sued by the ACLU. The best wy for things to change is for Christians to take the initiative to change them.

 

I know the ACLU is trying to keep it out of public jobs, and there are many national businesses that prohibit their employees from saying it, but I've seen no connection between the two. Yet. I expect it.

I did a Google and came up with many, many cases where the ACLU was keeping it out of public (government) jobs, and out of schools, including prohibiting songs even without the words, because "someone might think of the words and be offended".

 

You seems to be describing yourself. You've made a nebulous claim about the ACLU, and have flatly refused to support that with anything factual.

Lacking support, it appears to be the truth. In fact, I attempted to find any info to support your claim, attempting to give you the benefit of the doubt. But I found nothing. The only conclusion that one can reach is that you're either lying on purpose, or simply misguided on your stance.

Frankly, I expect more from you. Your posts tend to be a bit more objective than this, and you tend to be otherwise respectable. I'm at a loss as to why you are violating biblical principles here.

 

Merry Christmas everybody!

 

I've seen a few of those cases as well, and generally come to the same conclusion as you. However, we should at least allow people to understand what the law allows.

It is not illegal for government employees to say "Merry Christmas". Christmas is a secular national holiday, and the phrase itself is not religios in nature. Some governmental agencies have instructed employees not to use the phrase out of professionalism, but this is an employee/employer matter, not a legal matter.

It is not illegal for schools or community organizations to sing religious christmas songs. Courts have on numerous occaision rules that sacred tunes are culturally approriate. It is only inappropriate if the songs sung are exclusively religious in nature, since songs of the season are not exclusively sacred. However, the court does not require a "minimum" number of secular songs or a "maximum" number of sacred songs.

It is not illegal for nativity scenes to be displayed on public property. The only thing illegal is if the public finances the display. If the public provides space for it, but it is paid for by a privte entity, the display is permissible.

These things have all been tried and tested in the courts (not just by the ACLU) many times, and these rights have been continually upheld.

 

It all depends upon where you are. When the RI case came up and the courts ruled one way, at the same time in FL, an identical case came up and the courts ruled differently. Also, in one jurisdiction, a court made a ruling (which was later overturned) that a Christian creche (sp?) scene was illegal, but the rest was permissible because of diversity.

Although most of the cases (so far) have been ruled in favor of common sense, not all have, and the fact that it comes up repeatedly is annoying and it sort of shows where we're headed.

 

Still waiting for some documentation for this original post:

bruren777 posted:
the illustrious ACLU Anti Christian Liberal Union is behind businesses with public contact in keeping their employees from saying Merry Christmas to customers.

Without documentation, it is nothing more than a falsehood being spread.

 

Oh, it could just be one mans opinion...which wouldn't necessarily define it as a falsehood.

 

Woodymdt,gotta disagree...if he had prefaced with "I THINK the ACLU is behind businesses with public contact..." then that would be opinion.

As written, it is a falsehood without documentation.

 

I have seen at least one ACLU newsletter encouraging the members to complain to store managers if Christmas displays appeared too religious for their taste. So if religious conservative groups complain about Christmas advertising & displays that are totally secular, I'd say that is fine. Good for the goose, good for the gander.

 

Eh, just trying to iron out the road a little bit...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20051202/bs_usatoday/someretailersgivethewordchristmasanod

Seems there are those who are trying to "reclaim" the Christmas spirit in the retail world after all, and some store chains are willing to oblige.

"If you are going to make your earnings on the year because of Christmas, why should you be ashamed to call it Christmas?" asks AFA President Tim Wildmon. "People don't buy Thanksgiving gifts."