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C. S. Lewis was not a Christian
- Thread starter Psalm145 3
- Start date
KenH
Well-Known Member
Romans 2:13-16 (ESV)
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. [14] For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. [15] They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them
[16] on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
People never cease to amaze me! Arrogance abounds in some people!
There are so many things to be worried about in this Christian life, and yet some people settle for throwing stones at someone and trying to speculate that they were not a believer.
Since when is it our job to speculate whether C.S. Lewis is a believer or not? I am confident enough in God to let him handle that responsibility.
If you do not like Lewis, then do not read his books or view the movies. Seems simple enough to me.
There are so many things to be worried about in this Christian life, and yet some people settle for throwing stones at someone and trying to speculate that they were not a believer.
Since when is it our job to speculate whether C.S. Lewis is a believer or not? I am confident enough in God to let him handle that responsibility.
If you do not like Lewis, then do not read his books or view the movies. Seems simple enough to me.
Marcia
Active Member
This is not about sectarianism but about Jesus being the only way. Lewis -- whom I do believe was a Christian -- believed one could be saved outside of Christianity. This is inclusivism and I don't think it's biblical.
Mormons do not have the true Jesus -- sure, maybe a Mormon could come to know the true Jesus - but the LDS church does not teach the true Jesus. So a Mormon cannot be saved by believing in the Mormon Jesus. You can't be saved by believing in the buddha nature. You can't be saved by believing in the New Age God or New Age Jesus. If Lewis was right about this, then what was the point of God delivering me from my Eastern/New Age beliefs 15 yrs. ago?
Mormons do not have the true Jesus -- sure, maybe a Mormon could come to know the true Jesus - but the LDS church does not teach the true Jesus. So a Mormon cannot be saved by believing in the Mormon Jesus. You can't be saved by believing in the buddha nature. You can't be saved by believing in the New Age God or New Age Jesus. If Lewis was right about this, then what was the point of God delivering me from my Eastern/New Age beliefs 15 yrs. ago?
There is a big difference between saying that someone can be saved outside of Christianity and that they can be saved outside of Christ.
Paul, in his letter to the Romans, tells us that we are not saved by theological proposition, but by how we respond to the light that we are shown.
If someone who has never heard the Gospel does respond to the light of his conscience and the testimony of creation, he will be saved.
If someone in an false religion who has a misunderstanding of the Gospel responds sincerely to what he does understand, concerning the things that God has revealed to all men, he will be saved.
Dear Sister Marcia,
No one said Bhudda, LDS, or other false religions 'saved'.
Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost, He came to save His people from their sins.
There are many who are in these false groups, believing a false teaching who are among His People, as you evidence.
Now, as we are arguing over who is and who is not saved, many in Christianity are making the attempt to do the work of atonement that Christ completed on Calvary.
There is an internal drawing to God through Christ, if not, none will come to him.
This being an internal work, all we have to view is the outworking of it; doctrinal error is not sufficient ground to make ourselves eternal judges of no person.
The best this approach will do is to turn them further away from the truth and deeper into their belief of untruths.
Bro. Dallas
No one said Bhudda, LDS, or other false religions 'saved'.
Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost, He came to save His people from their sins.
There are many who are in these false groups, believing a false teaching who are among His People, as you evidence.
Now, as we are arguing over who is and who is not saved, many in Christianity are making the attempt to do the work of atonement that Christ completed on Calvary.
There is an internal drawing to God through Christ, if not, none will come to him.
This being an internal work, all we have to view is the outworking of it; doctrinal error is not sufficient ground to make ourselves eternal judges of no person.
The best this approach will do is to turn them further away from the truth and deeper into their belief of untruths.
Bro. Dallas
Paul of Eugene
New Member
Paul of Tarsus believed in the same kind of inclusivism as C. S. Lewis. He wrote in Romans:
And that, he tells us right there in Romans, is enough preaching that SOME will be able to accept and even achieve salvation.
However, there are those for whom Paul is not enough of an authority and they will look to the "magic words" for salvation instead of repentence and turning to God.
You see here how he first says one must heed the preaching of the word; and then he quotes the Psalms to show that EVERYBODY HAS HEARD THE GOSPEL! For he quotes from the very Psalm (Psalm 19) that tells us all the heavens above declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth His handiwork. He calls that PREACHING - since the SCRIPTURE says the message is HEARD BY EVERYBODY!
And that, he tells us right there in Romans, is enough preaching that SOME will be able to accept and even achieve salvation.
However, there are those for whom Paul is not enough of an authority and they will look to the "magic words" for salvation instead of repentence and turning to God.
Marcia
Active Member
Paul, I am not sure that verse 18 means everyone in the world has heard the gospel. Doesn't the term "into all the earth" and "ends of the world" often mean the known world at the time? Is it not disputed that this means the whole world has the gospel?
Even if you think it means the gospel went into the whole world, this does not mean that people followed it and that it's still there. In fact, most people follow non-Christian religions that bear no resemblance to Christianity.
When one chooses a false god, whether they have heard the gospel or not, they are not saved.
Even if you think it means the gospel went into the whole world, this does not mean that people followed it and that it's still there. In fact, most people follow non-Christian religions that bear no resemblance to Christianity.
When one chooses a false god, whether they have heard the gospel or not, they are not saved.
Interesting thread.
I noticed that in the months following 9-1-1, nobody was really found it important to argue whether or not an author who died in the 1960's was really saved or not, or any other argument that focused on our differences as Christians.
What's the difference now?
Does it really take continued national tragedies for us to focus on what's really important in our lives as people and as Christians?
What will either "side" gain if their argument is proven?
I noticed that in the months following 9-1-1, nobody was really found it important to argue whether or not an author who died in the 1960's was really saved or not, or any other argument that focused on our differences as Christians.
What's the difference now?
Does it really take continued national tragedies for us to focus on what's really important in our lives as people and as Christians?
What will either "side" gain if their argument is proven?
Another strong scripture is that found in Galatians 3:8
Ga 3:8 (KJV) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
It is the Spirit that declares the gospel.
BTW, the same world that the Bible commands the gospel messenger to go into is the same world that God created in the beginning, there is no corner of it that is hidden from His Presence, regardless of the obedience, the degree of faith or the belief a man.
Bro. Dallas
Ga 3:8 (KJV) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
It is the Spirit that declares the gospel.
BTW, the same world that the Bible commands the gospel messenger to go into is the same world that God created in the beginning, there is no corner of it that is hidden from His Presence, regardless of the obedience, the degree of faith or the belief a man.
Bro. Dallas
Mark Osgatharp
New Member
A. I am a Landmarker.
B. This has nothing to do with Landmarkism or baptism.
C. This is about whether or not a man can be saved without faith in Jesus Christ.
D. According to the quotes from "Mere Christianity" in the opening post of this thread, Lewis DID believe a man can be saved without faith in Jesus Christ. That is heresy and inclusivisn of the worst kind.
Mark Osgatharp
Dear Brother Mark,
there is nothing in scripture nor in the doctrine of the church that gives any one of us authority to determine the belief unto righteousness in the heart of an individual.
Not too many weeks ago a few landmark preachers have declared me unsaved because they cannot determine by my baptism that I am a true landmarker.
I am coming out from under those heavy burdens that they cannot carry themselves and are trying to make so many others to carry for them.
I am laying down my landmark beliefs where they are exclusive enough to be nothing more than a return to the RCC.
I possessed the eternal hope long before I knew or understood the contentions among varying Baptist Groups. Likewise, there are multitudes which no man is able to count who are dying, not lost and headed for a devil's hell without the gospel preacher, but without a knowledge of the rest they possess in Christ because why? Because people like landmark missionary Baptists have no patience nor aptitude for teaching those who do oppose themselves.
All is hung upon an outward work of baptism or nothing.
Bro. Dallas
there is nothing in scripture nor in the doctrine of the church that gives any one of us authority to determine the belief unto righteousness in the heart of an individual.
Not too many weeks ago a few landmark preachers have declared me unsaved because they cannot determine by my baptism that I am a true landmarker.
I am coming out from under those heavy burdens that they cannot carry themselves and are trying to make so many others to carry for them.
I am laying down my landmark beliefs where they are exclusive enough to be nothing more than a return to the RCC.
I possessed the eternal hope long before I knew or understood the contentions among varying Baptist Groups. Likewise, there are multitudes which no man is able to count who are dying, not lost and headed for a devil's hell without the gospel preacher, but without a knowledge of the rest they possess in Christ because why? Because people like landmark missionary Baptists have no patience nor aptitude for teaching those who do oppose themselves.
All is hung upon an outward work of baptism or nothing.
Bro. Dallas
Mark Osgatharp
New Member
Frogman,
I was raised among Landmark Baptist and have preached among them for over 20 years and have never known a single Landmark Baptist who said a man was not saved because he wasn't baptized. There may have been some Landmark Baptist who told you that your baptism was not legitimate, but I doubt very seriously - very seriously - if they told you you were saved.
If someone did say you weren't saved because you weren't baptized, they are an abberation among Landmark Baptists because Landmark Baptists DO NOT believe that baptism is a condition of salvation.
However, Landmark Baptists do believe, unashamedly and unrepentantly, that anyone who does not have faith in Jesus Christ as the crucified and resurrected Savior of the world is on the road to a burning hell......C.S. Lewis and his fairy tales notwithstanding.
Mark Osgatharp
I was raised among Landmark Baptist and have preached among them for over 20 years and have never known a single Landmark Baptist who said a man was not saved because he wasn't baptized. There may have been some Landmark Baptist who told you that your baptism was not legitimate, but I doubt very seriously - very seriously - if they told you you were saved.
If someone did say you weren't saved because you weren't baptized, they are an abberation among Landmark Baptists because Landmark Baptists DO NOT believe that baptism is a condition of salvation.
However, Landmark Baptists do believe, unashamedly and unrepentantly, that anyone who does not have faith in Jesus Christ as the crucified and resurrected Savior of the world is on the road to a burning hell......C.S. Lewis and his fairy tales notwithstanding.
Mark Osgatharp
Dear Brother Mark,
I respect you because of your landmark beliefs, be careful with them however. I have been told that I am not saved because my baptism is questionable and a true child of God, who is led by the Spirit of truth will always find a true scriptural baptism.
This is a growing threat to the autonomy of Landmark bodies of believers and it is something that I wish to have no part of, unless I am of course willing to denounce the ancient faith and practice of Baptists and embrace Campbellism and ultimately Roman Catholicism.
Instead of this however, I am in the process of seeking a home among the true Historical Baptists.
May God Bless,
Bro. Dallas Eaton
Mark Osgatharp
New Member
Frogman,
A true child of God who is LED BY THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH will always findtrue scriptural baptism. However, God's true children do not always follow the leading of the Spirit, and Landmark Baptists know this and that is why we consistetly preach that man is saved by faith in Christ, not by baptism.
All of which has ZERO to do with the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is that C.S. Lewis asserted that a man can be saved without even believing on Jesus Christ. That makes him a damnable heretic.
Mark Osgatharp
A true child of God who is LED BY THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH will always findtrue scriptural baptism. However, God's true children do not always follow the leading of the Spirit, and Landmark Baptists know this and that is why we consistetly preach that man is saved by faith in Christ, not by baptism.
All of which has ZERO to do with the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is that C.S. Lewis asserted that a man can be saved without even believing on Jesus Christ. That makes him a damnable heretic.
Mark Osgatharp
Mark, would you mind taking a minute and clarifying for me the difference between what Lewis says, and what Paul says in his letter to the Romans about how men who don't have the Gospel can respond to the light of their conscience and the testimony of nature?
I just don't see it and it might be helpful to me if you can clear this up for me.