No Other Name

Some are disturbed that some merchants are leaving Christ out of Christmas so they can sell more merchandise to non-Christians.

What we really ought to be alarmed about is that some, even some who claim to be Baptists, are leaving Christ out of salvation! They claim that you can be saved without ever having heard the blessed name of Jesus or without believing His gospel.

But the word of God - the Holy Bible - tells us that Jesus said,

"I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the father but by me."

My blessed Savior tells me that,

"my sheep know my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

My Lord's apostles and disciples established His gospel in the world after His death, many of them suffering bonds, stripes, and even death for their faith in the Holy One. And what message was it for which they suffered? It was for preaching such things as this:

"For there is none other name given under heaven among men, whereby ye must be saved."

Ghandi be damned. Mohammed be damned. The unbelieving Jews be damned. The Buddists, Hindus and agnostics be damned. The modernist psuedo Christians be damned.

For my Savior said,

"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believing not shall be damned."

And His beloved apostle Paul said,

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be Anathema."

Which, being interpreted, means,

"let him be accursed."

Is there anyone around here with enough "mere Christianity" in them to say "Amen" to that?

Mark Osgatharp

Who is proclaiming such, Mark? Thought Billy Graham too feeble to proclaim that false gospel any longer . .

You get an "AMEN" from this preacher, who still preaches Christ and Him crucified!

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
Ghandi be damned. Mohammed be damned. The unbelieving Jews be damned. The Buddists, Hindus and agnostics be damned. The modernist psuedo Christians be damned.

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What, exactly, does "be damned" mean in this context? Is it a desire on your part or a statement of fact?

rsr,

I won't dignify that question with an answer.

Mark Osgatharp

Why not? I really don't know what you meant.

Mark is simply preaching the landmark baptism rally cry. That is all.

Note he uses the buzz scripture, Joh 10:27 (KJV) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

This is true; his sheep hear HIS voice and they follow HIM and not man; not man's teaching; anything that puts their eternal hope in anything less than the righteousness of God manifested in Christ, they will not follow, thus the landmarker must make all who reject their baptism to be unbelievers, damned according to their distorted view of scripture and their failure to see that following Christ in this world is a heart work first and that in offending HIS dear sheep are caused to flee the laborious yoke of man as they seek to find their rest in the blessed hope of the church rather than of man's work and thus see their full satisfaction in a hope not bound to this present world and thus confess they are strangers and pilgrims in this world and look for a better country whose maker and builder is God; whose hope is to be satisfied when they awake in his likeness only.

Bro. Dallas

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
Who is proclaiming such, Mark? Thought Billy Graham too feeble to proclaim that false gospel any longer . .

You get an "AMEN" from this preacher, who still preaches Christ and Him crucified!

Click to expand...

Check out the thread on C S Lewis - the discussion has gone in the direction of inclusivism since Lewis was one. Apparently, several on the BB agree with Lewis.

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
What we really ought to be alarmed about is that some, even some who claim to be Baptists, are leaving Christ out of salvation! They claim that you can be saved without ever having heard the blessed name of Jesus or without believing His gospel.

Mark Osgatharp

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I too believe that Christ is the only way to Heaven, but by what you just wrote, Abraham is disqualified.

He never heard the blessed name of Jesus.

What about a person in a foreign land that realizes there is a God from looking at nature, realizes that this God must be holy, realizes that he himself is a sinner, and that there is nothing he can do to save himself, then trust God to make a provision, a way from God, to save him. He may have never known the name of Jesus, but if this person calls on God to save him, is he saved?

I know this is extremly hypothetical, but is not too different from Abraham. Abraham didn't know Jesus, but believed God would send a "seed" that would redeem the world. Abraham, put his trust in God's provision, without hearing anything about Christianity.

Originally posted by tinytim:
Abraham didn't know Jesus, but believed God would send a "seed" that would redeem the world. Abraham, put his trust in God's provision, without hearing anything about Christianity.

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TinyTim,

Abraham had a specific promise that Christ would proceed from his loins. He was saved by believing in Christ just as much as I am. The only difference is that, in Old Testament times, Christ had not yet come in the personage of Jesus.

That is all quite a different thing from a man looking at the stars.

Mark Osgatharp

Posted by TinyTim
What about a person in a foreign land that realizes there is a God from looking at nature, realizes that this God must be holy, realizes that he himself is a sinner, and that there is nothing he can do to save himself, then trust God to make a provision, a way from God, to save him. He may have never known the name of Jesus, but if this person calls on God to save him, is he saved?

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I think there are 2 possible answers to your question:
1. There is no one who sincerely seeks God; the evidence is there for God but man rejects it. God holds man accountable for this because He has given the evidence (I think this is the point of this passage). Subset of this: Man is not convicted of sin without God's intervention, and in such a case, God will reveal the truth of Christ via a missionary, Bible, or some kind of way to expose the person to the news of Christ.

2. If such a scenario as the one you describe exists, and man can seek God and realize his sin on his own, then God will get the gospel of Jesus Christ to that person (similar to subset of #1).

Originally posted by Frogman:
thus the landmarker must make all who reject their baptism to be unbelievers, damned according to their distorted view of scripture

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Frogman,

Why don't you quit telling that lie. I am a Landmark Baptist and know that Landmark Baptists consistently and uniformly preach that men are born again by faith without baptism.

You are the one who introduced baptism into this discussion; not me. Though I do consider baptism extremely important, I do not consider it a condition of eternal salvation nor does any Landmark Baptist.

I don't believe a man has to do anything other than believe on Jesus to be saved. Not pray, not confess, not anything other than just believe. Period.

My issue with Lewis is that he wrote that men who have not believed on Jesus can be saved. That heresy I do and will always reject.

Mark Osgatharp

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tinytim:
Abraham didn't know Jesus, but believed God would send a "seed" that would redeem the world. Abraham, put his trust in God's provision, without hearing anything about Christianity.

Click to expand...

TinyTim,

Abraham had a specific promise that Christ would proceed from his loins. He was saved by believing in Christ just as much as I am. The only difference is that, in Old Testament times, Christ had not yet come in the personage of Jesus.

That is all quite a different thing from a man looking at the stars.

Mark Osgatharp </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with you about Abraham. That is what I was trying to say. but you mentioned in the OP that one was to hear the "Blessed name of Jesus"
I just thought I'd help you out.

Marcia, What you said made sense also.

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Frogman:
thus the landmarker must make all who reject their baptism to be unbelievers, damned according to their distorted view of scripture

Click to expand...

Frogman,

Why don't you quit telling that lie. I am a Landmark Baptist and know that Landmark Baptists consistently and uniformly preach that men are born again by faith without baptism.

You are the one who introduced baptism into this discussion; not me. Though I do consider baptism extremely important, I do not consider it a condition of eternal salvation nor does any Landmark Baptist.

I don't believe a man has to do anything other than believe on Jesus to be saved. Not pray, not confess, not anything other than just believe. Period.

My issue with Lewis is that he wrote that men who have not believed on Jesus can be saved. That heresy I do and will always reject.

Mark Osgatharp </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Brother Mark,
though you may sincerely believe my speech is a lie, it is not. I have experienced it adamantly as being called one who is unregenerated because some 'suspect' my baptism.

Why do they suspect my baptism?

First, they say they do not know the church under whose authority I was baptized.

Secondly, as you say you do not believe any have to pray, I agree, yet when one is seeking I have no qualms with directing them to turn to Christ through prayer for hope of assurance. NOT a sinner's prayer that I lead them in, but in seeking assurance personally from God through Christ.

In learning this many of your and my formerly esteemed landmark brethren have declared me a non-regenerate. Some of them have since apologized;

This is not limited here though and is becoming a widespread issue among landmarkers. Knowing they cannot even present their particular chain link history they must keep those who would enquire of that off topic by diverting the attention to bodies in other places, under scriptural autonomy mind you, who are unknown and throw doubt upon their scriptural soundness.

They simply cannot recognize a spirit of Grace, which is all that Barnabas recognized when going to Antioch.

Dear Brother, I wish my words were simply lies, it would be easy to stop saying it.

They are not lies however.

Bro. Dallas

To get back onto your op here, I was wished a happy holiday by a cashier at Wal-Mart, to which I replied Merry Christmas to you too.

She was embarrassed.

My dad is not a Baptist and in fact is a mason and believes that body to be the true church, though I disagree with him, he recently enquired of a Wal-mart clerk what holiday she was referring to.

When she said Christmas, he said, see that wasn't hard was it?

BTW, Christmas is not a Biblical practice. Just thought I would add that.

Bro. Dallas

Originally posted by tinytim:
I agree with you about Abraham. That is what I was trying to say. but you mentioned in the OP that one was to hear the "Blessed name of Jesus"

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Since the advent of Christ in the person of Jesus of Nazareth one does have to hear the blessed name of Jesus. That wasn't so in the Old Testament times for then Christ was known in promise and the person of Jesus had not yet come. But now it is,

"There is none other name given under heaven among men, whereby ye must be saved."

Mark Osgatharp

In reference to Abraham:

Genesis 18
1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

Perhaps Lewis himself believed in that Name which is above every Name whereby we MUST be saved, but was mistaken about others who didn't.

John 10
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

HankD

Believing and trusting can be two different things. The devil believes in God. He certainly has npt trusted Christ. If a person knows nothing of Jesus as the atoning sacrifice for sin, what is he trusting in?