Rick Warren

I agree on both your points here. </font>[/QUOTE]Bumped to page two in case you didn't see it at the bottom of page one.

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you for bumping your own post where you take my sentence out of context to mock it.

I take it you are someone who listens to preachers...but refuses to read books (by your own admission). Talk about calling the kettle black.

 

Wow, Webdog. I didn't realize that agreeing with you about Rick Warren would elicit such an acid response. Sorry to see that.

Joseph Botwinick

 

From your past RW conversations...this was not in "agreement" with me. You snively imply that PDL is not about purpose.

 

Nope. I was agreeing with you. I quoted what you stated and then agreed with you.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I agree on both your points here. </font>[/QUOTE]Bumped to page two in case you didn't see it at the bottom of page one.

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you for bumping your own post where you take my sentence out of context to mock it.

I take it you are someone who listens to preachers...but refuses to read books (by your own admission). Talk about calling the kettle black. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree. You are the pot calling the kettle black. I never said I don't read books.

Joseph Botwinick

 

In your rush to be critical, you don't even get your facts straight, and it makes you look really ignorant. Rick Warren studied at Southwestern Seminary in Ft. Worth. He did not study under Robert Schuller.

I wish I were as smart as you guys who can just pick up the Bible and with no help at all, no insight from anyone else's study and experience, and with nobody else's wisdom, learn everything I need to know about God and living a Christian life.

 

These statements tell us far more about the posters of the comments than Rick Warren.

 

I listen to Focus on the Family every day on XM and I have never heard him make a positive statement about Harry Potter.

 

Rick Warren has been very successful in spreading the message that "It's not about you, it's about glorifying Jesus Christ". Then along comes some Christian who casts aspersions and says he doubts Rick Warren's salvation. 1 Corinthians 12:3 tells us:

Rick Warren proclaims Jesus is Lord even to Roman Catholics, Mormons, etc. Billy Graham is criticized because he preaches the love of God without the message of sin being prominent in his message. Well, does the Holy Spirit give the exact same message to every preacher? There is one Spirit, and one gospel, but many messengers led to proclaim Christ as Lord. Badmouthing God's messengers is bad practice.

 

because they dont let the Holy Spirit lead. plain and simple. they may think they're letting the Holy Spirit lead... but in actuality if its that hard to make disciples... whos really teaching them... the preacher or the Holy Spirit? </font>[/QUOTE]Too many are listening to the denominational gurus who try to change the Bible to fit their own lifestyle and call it discipleship. Too often they call another Bible study discipleship instead of wht it really is. Too many Bible studies are SYI (Share Your Ignorance) groups.

From the book Growing True Disciples by George Barna , pages 128 - 132


Let's Be Real

Truthfully, while disciple-making must be a priority for you, by whatever means you select, you must enter the process with your eyes open. What happens when you make true disciples - not just students or group members, but real zealots for Christ?

Peoples lives change
The collection of disciples - the true Church - gains favor with the world.
Society is changed by the disciples.
Society experiences turmoil as a result of the Church being true to God's truths and commands.
Disciples are persecuted.

Making disciples and being a disciple is not a complete joyride. Disciple-making is not the answer to every cultural problem that exists - in fact, an effective discipleship process may create new tensions and animosities within the culture as God's principles clash with Satan's principles in the battle of spiritual kingdoms. But the hardships that arise as a result of engagement in disciple-making are no excuse to avoid or minimize our devotion to the process and its outcomes; in fact, they are an indicator that the Church is being the Church. As long as the battle between good and evil persists, we will not experience a peaceful, loving, wholly satisfying society. However, while being avid, passionate disciples of Jesus Christ will not bring about the perfect society, the thrust to be true disciples is the answer for each of us, individually, in the quest to become pleasing and honorable people in God's eyes.

We cannot help but have a positive impact on the world when we are being Christ-like, even though the results of our life may not always look pretty. Not even Jesus, the Son of God, the Prince of Peace, the Savior of Humankind, was loved by all people. If we follow His ways and His footsteps, we should not expect to be loved and accepted by everyone either. But God, the Father of Creation, was completely pleased with the work of the Son - and that was all that mattered to the Son. So Jesus is our model and that is our challenge: to gain the acceptance of the Father, by imitating the work of the Son, through the empowerment of the Spirit. The results that emerge are up to God to disentangle. That is a task clearly beyond our capabilities.

When you hire people, you study their lives to look for clues as to what they will be like as an employee. When you buy products, you study the contents and reviews to determine which products will provide the outcomes you desire. As you strive to become a disciple and to make disciples, keep your eyes on the substance of the subject, whether it is you or someone whom you are discipling.


Here's what you're looking for - and, if it's absent, what you are trying to infuse within the true disciple:
the passion of Stephen
the joy of the post-Pentecost apostles
the integrity of Nathanael
the availability of Mary
the perseverance of Paul
the transformation of Peter
the wisdom of James
the servanthood of Martha
the love of John
the generosity of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus
the seriousness of John the Baptist
the studiousness of Luke
the humility and reverent faith of the centurion
the evangelistic sharing of Andrew
the character of Jesus


None of these stalwarts of the faith (with the exception of Jesus) was a perfect representation of each of the qualities listed here. Each of these individuals stood out for a handful of qualities, and presumably worked on developing other qualities that brought them into greater conformity with Jesus' life. As you study their paths to glory keep in mind that even the models of our faith fell short of the glory of God. By our very nature, we always will; but by God's will, we must not accept our limitations as excuses to give up.

The real obstacles to becoming a fully devoted, zealous disciple of Christ are not money, time, methods or knowledge. The major obstacle is the human heart. When that changes, all else changes. Jesus frequently reminded His disciples that the problem was not one of knowledge but of character The Pharisees had more religious knowledge than they knew what to do with but they lacked the character to apply it in ways that transformed themselves and their world. Judas spent many months living with Jesus, observing His ways and His miracles, learning timeless and transforming principles directly from the lips of the Master, and yet all of His knowledge and experience could not compensate for a wicked heart. A disciple is a person of Christian character. Just as Paul instructed his young disciple Timothy, if you develop appropriate character, the rest will follow.

Go, Therefore ...
Be a true disciple. Go and make disciples.
And what will it look like, when it works?

True discipleship produces holistic personal transformation, not mere assimilation into a community of church members.

True discipleship is witnessed by people who are determined to be a blessing to others - people who are never content to simply accept and enjoy God's blessings to them.

True discipleship creates Christians who aggressively pursue spiritual growth rather than passively experience spiritual evolution.

True discipleship spawns individuals who develop renewed lifestyles instead of believers who mechanically check off completed assignments on a developmental agenda.

True discipleship results in people who are more concerned about the quality of their character than the extent of their knowledge.

True discipleship builds churches known for their culture of love, commitment and service rather than for their events, information and programs.

True discipleshipp facilitates people devoted to a lifelong journey to imitate Jesus Christ, rather than the completion of a short-term regimen of tasks and responsibilities.

Do you passionately want to become a zealous disciple of Jesus Christ? Are you committed to bring others with you on that amazing journey?

Discipleship is about complete obedience to the Word of God, driven by a heart that can stand to do nothing less and a mind that knows it pays to focus on nothing less and a mind that knows it pays to focus on nothing else. Can we fulfill this mammoth challenge? Jesus, our mentor, says we can. "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in Me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these..." (John 14:12)

If you are devoted to the process of spiritual growth, and to allowing God's Holy Spirit to shape you on that journey, how you end up will bear scant resemblance to what you were when you began the journey.