What is the SINGLE biggest caster of doubt on God's Word?

Ed Edwards

If private Interpretation means private application as you say, I do not see where I am wrong.

This means you cannot take scripture to mean what you as an individual think or personally prefer it should mean.

And that is what I meant. And that is what I said earlier.

No, the Bible is to be understood as God chose it to be understood.

And thanks for your help, but I really have done quite well for many years without your scholarship.

Of course, you think I am often wrong.

And I feel the same about you.

 

Oh, and so not to stray from the original post, I think the biggest source of doubt to God's Word is those who either add or take away from God's Word.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

This is what Satan has always done. He added to God's Word when he tempted Eve in the garden.

And Satan took away from God's Word when he tempted Christ.

 

Thank you JWI for an excellent example of the rescue interpretation of the Bible.

See, any time we know a thing to really be true, we re-interpret the Bible to go along with what we know to be true.

We all do it. I do it to. It's the only way to reconcile the absolutes in our lives:

a) The bible, properly interpreted is inerrant

b) Modern science has some accurate findings (based on lots of evidence from God's creations)

Our only differences are on how much we are persuaded by various parts of modern science.

Most of us have long ago abandoned defending the literal teaching of the scripture concerning the motion of the sun across the sky as the cause of day and night. We speak learnedly of the verses that talk about the sun rising and setting as being phenomenologically based, completely ignoring the history of the original protesters against those upstart scientists like Copernicus and Gallileo . . . protestors who pointed out that the scripture says it was the sun that halted its motion, not the earth on Joshua's long day . . .

rescue interpretation, today, wins our hearts on this issue because we believe the science.

Some of us also believe the science of evolution and the age of the universe.

Folks, the science is convincing and emphatic. To deny it remains basically crazy science.

So how do I interpret Genesis? I thank God for providing the key to interpreting Genesis One for all ages - in the days of man's ignorance concerning the nature of the universe, He allowed a beautiful poetic description of the universe to fill our souls and minds.

Now that we have learned more about His creation, we note that right there in his word we have the concept plain and simple: A day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day.

It is true we must no longer view chapter one of Genesis as literal in intent from God's point of view. One can, in reading the chapter, note that the genre is different and the poetic nature of the chapter rings clear.

The days, then are clearly epochs, but there is one other thing that we must note, and that is the epochs are each seperate . . . seperate to the point that they are not strictly following one after the other, not literally. For we know that in reality, there were many land animals that came along long before some of them reverted to the sea as whales and porpoises; the fossil record, which by the way came direct from the hand of God just as much as the scriptures, is quite clear on that.

So that is the way I interpret the first chapter of Genesis by way of reconciliation with the truths discovered by modern science.

God's word is precious to me, it is by the promises within His word that I have my hope, and it is by His Spirit I am directed to trust in it.

 

Paul of Eugene

Couple of problems there. Ok, if one day is if a thousand years to the Lord and a thousand years as one day....

Being a little sarcastic here, but if you want to use that as your rescue verse, then God created everything in 6000 years. Still completely contrary to evolution.

But also, these days were described in the same manner:

"And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Each day is described an one evening and one morning. Singular, not plural.

So, the Earth must have rotated very slowly in those days.

And I showed clearly that fowls applied to winged creatures other than birds.

Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon [all] four, [shall be] an abomination unto you.

Do you know of any bird that creeps on four legs?

No, this was describing certain winged insects with four feet and two legs for leaping as clearly described in the verses.

This is simply how God describes certain insects like grasshoppers. And anyone who has looked at these insects can see the hind legs are much larger and used for leaping, while the front legs are much smaller and used for walking or holding.

This type of false argument has been used for those who described the whale as a fish in the past. It has only been in the last several hundred years that classifications such as mammal have been used. This is simply a name based on certain characteristics. Anyone can use any criteria they wish to use to catogorize animals and use any name they wish.

This does not mean books or people who called the whale a fish were wrong. That is simply the classification used at that time.

And any reasonable person could easily figure that out.

I am quite sure that the ancient Hebrews were aware that insects had six legs. They did not correct these verses, because they were not wrong to their understanding. They knew exactly what God was describing, no problem at all.

It is modern people that do not understand.

 

And one more thing. Why do you describe people who believe the account in Genesis to be literal as ignorant?

"So how do I interpret Genesis? I thank God for providing the key to interpreting Genesis One for all ages - in the days of man's ignorance concerning the nature of the universe, He allowed a beautiful poetic description of the universe to fill our souls and minds"

So, you are saying that God told everyone a nice fairy tale to keep them happy until science could figure out evolution?

Oh brother.

God clearly says that Eve was taken and formed from Adam's rib. Eve is the only creature described in this manner. If man and the other animals were formed over ages from other creatures, God clearly could have said so.

To say Adam was formed from the dust of the ground when he was evolved from another creature would be misleading and completely inconsistent.

And the very proof that this would be misleading is the many millions of people who believe God did create Adam from the dust of the ground and do not believe man evolved from some less creature.

 

A poll nearly was made on this subject
http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/10/5868.html?#000005

Here are the poll results current as of the time this post was made:

Poll Results: Greatest enemy of the Christian faith (26 votes.)
Greatest enemy of the Christian faith
Choose 1

Evolution taught in the classroom ----------------- 00% (0)
Professing Christians living like unbelievers --- 35% (9)
Hyperfundamentalism ------------------------------- 31% (8)
All roads lead to God ------------------------ 27% (7)
Evil is subjective and Satan isn't real ------ 8% (2)

======================================
This poll shows people do NOT want to talk about
evolution ONLY in this thread. The thread
is about things that MOST cast doubt
on God's Holy Written Word.

One thing I think casts doubt on God's
Holy Written Word is the confused idea
that fails to differentiate betweem
God's Written Word (rehma), a book
called 'the Holy Bible'
and God's Living Word (logos), a person
called 'Messiah Yeshua' (AKA: sonne of God Iesus
Lord and Savior Jesus', 'Jesus, the Christ', etc.)

Oh for a thousand names to sing the
praises of my blessed Lord and Savior:
Messiah Yeshua!!!

 

In my opinion, it's Christians who don't know the Word and live like they've never read or studied the Word. When they're shown the Word, they believe it doesn't apply to them or that a particular section of Scripture doesn't mean what it says.

 

-
Amen Brother Brother Ian -- Preach it!

-

 

I too agree with Brother Ian.
But I would also throw in that dreadful word "apathy". Growing cold another words.

 

I have to agree here. This guy here:



is one of the single biggest casters of doubt upon God's Word alive today. Here is just a sampling of his demonic liberal beliefs:

The single biggest enemy of the Word of God is liberal theology and those, such as Spong who promote it.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Ignorance:

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

HankD

 

Sorry, modern people are able to see that four is not equal to six.

It is perfectly possible to understand how the ancienct Hebrews could have made the mistake, contrary to your arguement from incredulity that they surely would not.

The scribe who penned these words - supplementing the book to include all the laws as Moses had passed them and as they knew God had given them to Moses - could easily have been a fastidious, bug avoiding kind of man to whom it never occurred to count the legs on flies and grasshoppers. That is, after all, a very modern way of thinking that is drilled into us from grade school - "all insects share the characteristics of having six legs" - and, lacking that heritage, the six leg mantra was simply not there like it is for us to protect him from that error, that's all.

Its not as if it affects our knowledge of what the law was, we understand perfectly what to do about choosing kosher bugs. We simply can't depend on the verse for an accurate rendering of the number of legs on grasshoppers or flies.

Its only a big deal to re-interpret the verse to allow for six legs because . . .

we all know that in spite of the use of "four" in the bible, they actually have six legs.

See, the earth's age has been dated, and it turns out to be billions of years. Stars have been discovered that were in existance for longer than the earth; we know this, because it takes longer than the earth's known age for the light from those stars to reach us.

Live shows a history of development over millions and millions of years. The history is laid out before us in the fossils God let remain, and in the genetic relationships God allows us to see.

These evidences are, to some of us, convincing. We are psychologically incapable of denying what they tell us.

You may deplore my acceptance of the fact that the sight of the andromeda Galaxy 3 million light years away proves there were stars in the universe 3 million years ago. I deplore your unwillingness to accept the plain sight in the heavens; but what can we do about that?

Faced with the need to accept these facts about the universe, I interpret the bible accordingly.

As does every reader of the bible, only we vary as to what set of scientific facts we are forced to face and accordingly allow to adjust our literal biblical interpretations.

 

Not just plain old ignorance, Hank, but deliberate and determined ignorance -- as Romans 1 puts it "suppressing the truth" and preferring the Lie.

And while I see the point others are making, I remember Mother Theresa and her blasphemous attitude that she was making Buddhists 'better Buddhists' and etc. for people who were dying. The attitude that 'it's OK, as long as you are sincere in your belief' lulls many into hell. That blasphemous inclusivism, despite being so charitable, is definitely taking the Lord's name in vain and presenting a false Christ to the world. Maybe this is all included in not living like a Christian, but the problem I have with that is that it is fairly easy to present good works to the world and still not be a Christian.

I will still stand up for the greatest caster of doubt to be easy-going inclusivism which makes light of sin, ignores the depth of God's love AND justice, and smilingly ignores the differences between Christianity and other religions, calling them all either trash or at least equal. When people are lulled into "I'm OK, you're OK", what will wake the up to the danger of their situation?

 

Helen,

Are you really tired today? I just couldn't follow what you were saying in this last paragraph. Help me understand what you were trying to say in the last paragraph.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Paul, ancient people knew how to count, too. Does that surprise you? They knew that four was not six, or eight, or any other number. Don't insult the Hebrews here, please.

They LIVED on the land, much closer to it than most of us do today. They had a pretty good idea of what they were talking about! Your post in this regard is an excellent example of determined ignorance.

And you are assuming what evolutionary science wants you to assume in order to reach the conclusions they want you to reach. You will always have a choice between man's wisdom and God's Word. I'm am sorry you so determinedly choose the former to the exclusion, when you feel it necessary, of the latter. I also requires you to ignore any data to the contrary of what you have chosen to believe.

Your post above is an implied insult not only to the Hebrews who knew how to count, but to those who know that God knows how to communicate to people everywhere the truth of what happened in creation and the age of the universe.

The Bible may not be a science text, but it is for sure an excellent guide to telling us where the truth in science may be found.

 

Well, I did just wake up, Joseph, and I'm on my cup of tea before I go out and clean horse stalls!

But I don't see what was confusing. Whether it is psychology or liberal theology or Dawkins or whatever, all religions get lumped together as either trash or a sop or equally true or false or whatever. I find this to be the biggest danger -- that those who reject all religion or those who accept all religions are all casting enormous doubt on the Bible for those who may be searching for the truth. Both of my sisters are examples of this, and it breaks my heart. One sister teaches Aikido and has found 'inner peace.' For her, my religion is fine but don't bother her with it, because she has her own beliefs, thank you, and God understands and loves us both! My other sister is in the United Methodist Church where all religions lead to God and Christianity has no exlusive claim on the truth and man can define and redefine as suits him anything the Bible says. Her son converted to Mormonism and married a Mormon and all that is just fine because they are so sincere in what they believe.

I see people being lulled or pulled away from the truth of the Bible by these attitudes, and I don't know how to wake them up.

 

Polls can be misleading. While nobody voted for evolution (including myself), it is certainly a serious problem. And LorrieAB who originated this thread believed evolution is the biggest spreader of doubt.

It is also interesting that almost equal numbers of people voted for "Professing Christians living like unbelievers" and "Hyperfundalmentalism"

This almost seems like a contradiction.

So, if you are not very zealous to live for God it casts doubt on God's word, and if you are very zealous to live for God it casts doubt on God's word.

I guess you can't win.

This is a problem with polls, you can only respond to the questions asked. And the questions can be carefully framed to get desired results.

According to this poll, it would seem nobody is interested in evolution. This, despite the fact that one of the biggest stories in the nation is the judge striking down the teaching of Intelligent Design in Pa.

And here is a recent poll on evolution from CBS News.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/22/opinion/polls/main965223.shtml

Evolution is BIG news at this time. This poll does not reflect reality.

 

WOW! I've never heard of this guy. "Interesting" fellow, isn't he?

 

I have a cousin who was lulled into LDS, as well. It troubles me because the rest of my family seems so passive about it, not that they can do much about it. But no one contested it when it started! When she told me she was converting to mormonism, I literally pulled out my bible and tried to talk her out of it. I was told, in no uncertain terms, that I should be 'supportive like the rest of the family'. I told her I would never supprt a decision that would pull her away from God. She hasn't talked to me since that conversation.

 

What is the SINGLE biggest caster of doubt on God's Word?

I think it is the commonly held idea that "all good people go to Heaven." That is an ear tickler if there ever was one!

A close second is: "God didn't really mean that."

A.F.