Gambling

There is no shortage of women who are addicted to scrapbooking, spending thousands of dollars they don't have on the hobby. The suppplies are expensive, and new products are always being introduced to satisfy the frenzy. I'm sure a few husbands (and perhaps even wives) on this board can attest to the legitimacy on this.

So if you're going to use the aformentioned premise to condemn gambling scripturally, you must likewise condemn scrapbooking. However, if you do, please wait until my wife has finished our wedding album.

 

Then, certainly, you'll be able to provided it, lest you be a legalist. </font>[/QUOTE]Your definition of "legalist" is always defamatory and WRONG! A legalist is nothing more than a person who believes he can either merit or maintain salvation through good works.

"The love of money is the root of all evil", there! (again ) I cannot help it if you don't understand simple passages that the LIVING Word of God covers all aspects of life: present,past, and FUTURE!

The precept against gambling is in the very ROOT of the verse. You may not accept that, but then it would be to your own demise.

 

It is presumptuous of us to assume that we can draw conclusions about what God thinks about any issue without His exact Words to back it up. We are mere humans in a fallen world. We cannot think his thoughts on our own power.

Then show it to us! Show us where God says in HIS WORD that it is wrong. My personal opinion is that gambling is a sin. I cannot impose that opinion on anyone else without scripture to back it up. Your statement that

Doesn't necessarily equal gambing is sin. I know people who view gambling as recreation. They don't see a difference in spending $50 for dinner and a movie and taking $50 to go to the casino. When their $50 is gone, they leave. Whether it takes them one hour or five. they say they aren't doing if for the money, but for fun.

Do people work at their job for their love of money, or to survive? If they are a work-a-holic I would say it's for their love of money. That brings us back to everything in moderation and that gluttony is a sin... </font>[/QUOTE]Actually, I can only see where my comment to JOHV is taken to be towards you and that has offended you, for that I am truly sorry and wish to apologize.

I also find your remarks more than "tongue in cheek", presumptuous, ignorant of the devil's devices, as well as willingly ignorant of you to assume that God's Word has to SPELL out verbatim everything you DEMAND to be the rule of life.

You don't seem to understand that God's Word is ALIVE, not only does the love of money condemn gambling as the offspring from the root of all evil, but the verse is expressly applicable to the mere mention of over-indulgence in "scrap-booking"

Working to earn a living as the provider of the home is not "the love of money", but working and forsaking quality time as the financial provider alone is perversion and MUST NEEDS BE CONDEMNED!!!

Why is it you tend to pervert Scripture to justify what is so clearly WRONG??????

Oh, and stop presuming my intentions from the heart, that is judgemental and Christ condemned that too: "With what judgement ye judge, ye shall also be judged".

If telling you the truth is somehow "not loving", then you have a lot of problems with MOST of Scripture.

 

I'm only going to post this one thing, just because I do feel so strongly about it.

Professional gambling and gambling with money in general is wrong because you are hoping others will lose so you can win. This is NOT loving your neighbor as yourself. If you were truly following that commandment you would be hoping you would lose so others could win!

However throwing dice to see what job should be done next or who will go first in something is not gambling in that way. No one is winning at the expense of others.

To respond to Johnv's mention of scrap-bookking -- if so much is being spent on this consistently that either the family is going without or there is actually a decent amount of money being spent which could actually feed and clothe another family, I would daresay it is wrong. However if one is just saving memories in an organized and pleasant way, that is a whole lot different!

The whole point of what is wrong about gambling is what is it doing to others? If you are helping support professional gambling, you are then also contributing to crime not only directly via the establishment, but by way of being part of something which depends on people losing money so that you or someone else can win.

If you truly love others as yourself, will you share your winnings with everyone around you? Will you offer shares to those who have lost so much gambling?

Or are you figuring, like someone else did, "Am I my brother's keeper?"

 

Dear Salamander,
I accept your apology for laughing and rolling your eyes at my sincere efforts to learn what God's Word says.

"I also find your remarks more than "tongue in cheek", presumptuous, ignorant of the devil's devices, as well as willingly ignorant of you to assume that God's Word has to SPELL out verbatim everything you DEMAND to be the rule of life." I admit that I was deeply angered by your remarks. I apologize if I let it show. I am a teacher, called of the Holy Spirit into my profession. My life's ambition (among other things) is to erradicate ignorance and stupidity from the face or the planet-- or at least as many minds as I can, through God's help. Therefore, I am very insulted at your accusation of my being willingly ignorant. I am no such thing. I study and try to learn new things all the time. (Drives my husband insane.) I don't demand anything of God's word. I study it and learn what it says and try to apply it to my life. I don't appreciate you saying that I do demand anything of it. I fully understand that God's word is alive and sharper than any two edged sword. I disagree with your opinion that we are allowed to force our own enterpretation of scripture on others, when God's word doesn't implicitly say what we think. May I remind you that in my opinion gambling is a sin? When we believe something is wrong in our own heart, but God's word doesn't specifically say it is, that makes it a personal conviction. We have no right to impose our convictions on others without chapter and verse to back it up.

I am finished discussing this topic. I will not be responding again. I was going to PM this to you, but decided to put it out for all to see. In your own mind, I guess you believe that you have provided scripture to back up your opinion, but not to the rest of us. Since, in two full days of debate, no one has been able to provide scripture that says, in effect, "thou shalt not gamble", I will continue to seek God's Will and Word.

 

Helen: Please Read Romans 14:1-12 carefully and then tell me if I will be sinning if I decide to do some gambling this weekend.

 

OK, Ray, I read it. Here are some questions for you in light of it.

1. Will what you do this weekend, whatever it is, be of encouragement to those of weak faith, or will it be, rather, an encouragement to them to find excuses for behavior that weakens their faith even more?

2. Will others have to lose in order for you to win?

3. If you lose, which you most probably will, is that the use of the money God has entrusted to you which is according to His will?

 

Don't professional athletes make a living wanting other people to lose? What about professionals competing in a similar industry? I'm sure they want other businesses to fail so theirs would thrive.

 

That makes some of that rather sticky, doesn't it?

 

Well said, brother!

 

Then we should all be refraining from contributing to the fast food industry, the sports industry, the scrapbooking industry, and the retail housing industry.</font>[/QUOTE]Apples and oranges. Gambling, which has already been defined as attempting to get something for nothing at the expense of another, promotes greed. If you don't want to admit this obvious fact, that is fine. Please spare me with comparing it to the retail housing market or any of the other examples you've already used. They are not the same thing. Whether you want to admit it or not, gambling is the ultimate "get rich quick" scheme.

 

I applaude your efforts to learn more. Please do not get discouraged by the rude comments of others. I personally do not agree with gambling, but some others lack of respect is much worse. God bless you and keep up the learning process.

 

The answer to your first framed question is neither. The answer to the other two questions is yes.

Now, will you answer my question?

 

Ok, your perogative, but you hung yourself, teacher, you fail to recognise principle in the proper light in which it is given. Also you mispelled "interpretation".

I do hope your interest is to follow Scripture and ask your husband. God did give him to you, the wife, for that reasoning power. If that "insults" your pride and arrogance, be warned, pride and arrogance are also condemned, though verbatim, many times only in principle too.

Since your post wreaks with the intent of demeaning my character, without consulting me why I said what I did, I find you the offender. This "conversation" is not individual, nor is it exactly general, though both can be taken at face value to be either.

My remarks were to "shake" your mind in the attempt to get you to realise the mistake you've made looking for exact phrasiologies to make certain decisions about the Christian walk. Instead you allowed your flesh to react and attack my person. The evidences are on the web for all to see.

I have nothing against you, nor do I intend to demean you. Edification takes some reproof. It is the result of compassion, not passion.

Learn this: "compassion"/ seeing the wrong with diligently seeking a way to correct that wrong without condemning the one in the wrong.

Passion: that which too often is the result of fleshly desire to satisfy the palate. When the palate is offended, one tends to spue things from their mouth.

I don't condemn you, I am only offering you a chance to reason. If your reason has reached a stopping point, may I suggest you get things back in gear and quit being so quick to respond with out further consideration?

 

Oh I see this must be that loving reproof you were after right? Or maybe it was when you decided to point out one of her spelling errors. This is a message board not a term paper, but of course you were just trying to get her straight right? I mean you wouldn’t want a bunch of Christians running around misspelling a word, now that could do a lot of damage. On the other hand, we have you demeaning someone for searching Gods word for truth. She is simply searching and discussing and then she is subjected to demeaning comments.

 

Ray, if you really feel that it is God's will that the money you will spend is spent in the hope that others will lose, as they must if you win, so that you can win, and that God has no better use for that money, then there is nothing more to be said, for nothing I say will make any difference to you. You are beyond loving your neighbor as yourself, you are beyond logic, and those are my two pleas in this argument.

 

I will not be baited any more. However, some passages to ponder:

Romans 14
1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.

1 Corinthians 8
9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak.

Titus 3:9
9But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.