Did Rick Warren really say this?

eloidalmanutha:

You failed to mention one of Warren's strongest models which he openly states is W.A. Criswell.

I went to a three day conference for pastors led by Warren and never heared him say what your second hand source claims, "Rick Warren openly associates with meditation, which is referred to as “contemplative prayer” or “breath prayer,” by making provision for it in some of his pastors’ training seminars, while yoga relaxation exercises are also offered."

I also went to another church service at the church and heard no such reference. I have never heard anybody mention any such thing by Warren.

Perhaps that writer needs to practice 1 Tim. 5:19, "Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses."

Having been at Saddleback on Easter 2005 and hearing the Gospel and seeing hundreds respond (4000 total in 16 services), then seeing 3600 of these "decisions" actually come for a 4 hour training session - and many of them truly get saved at that time, with more instruction - and then 3000+ baptized by immersion as believers. 95% adults! It was amazing.

For people to condemn or say there is no Gospel shows only that they are reading David Cloud or snippets from interviews/books and not the real pix.

I am prejudiced. Remember, my son is a pastor at Saddleback and travels with Rick on some of his preaching itineraries. You should have seen the "hand out" material at Christmas (they had 17 services). They knew that the Gospel is not always presented clearly in a living nativity or a cantata, so they printed out a "four spiritual law" type insert to be SURE the truth of the Gospel went out.

Wonder if all the ifb'ers that had a cantata were so careful to clearly present the Gospel?

Rick Warren on contemplative prayer, the emergence of the New Age Church, and Eastern mysticism:

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/warrentwo.htm

http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac23.htm

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/promotenewage.html

http://www.crossroad.to/News/mysticism.html

http://www.hissheep.org/catholic/the_purpose_driven_life_pt_2_demeaning_the_very_nature_of_god.htm

Posting a bunch of other people's opinions and sites does not make it true. If you believe RW teaches a "false doctrine", I would hate to know what doctrine you believe in.

Originally posted by webdog:
Posting a bunch of other people's opinions and sites does not make it true. If you believe RW teaches a "false doctrine", I would hate to know what doctrine you believe in.

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That Jesus Christ is God, that salvation is dependent on repentance and the Truth of God's Word - like sanctification, justification, living a holy life and repentant life - not man's desire to reinvent what God said.

It's interesting that documented information is shrugged off as "people's opinions" - what was posted on those sites is general public information based on what is contained within RW's books and on actual events, situations, and contacts that have been made, as well as a comparison with God's Word. In other words, RW is sleeping with the enemy.

If you take small amounts of poison [rick's teachings], you acrue a tolerance for it. Just beware that if you continue to take it, it will kill you eventually.

Well, I think Dr. Bob and the pastors that I have known from Saddleback would be closer to the source. And I do not think he is teaching heresy. I may not agree with everything, but, it does not sound like what you say it is.

Originally posted by El_Guero:
Well, I think Dr. Bob and the pastors that I have known from Saddleback would be closer to the source. And I do not think he is teaching heresy. I may not agree with everything, but, it does not sound like what you say it is.

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Then let me challenge you to do your own research and look into the allegations for yourself. What appears to be good on the outside may not be reality on the inside. But then, that is how satan works - he masquerades as an angel of light.

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
That Jesus Christ is God, that salvation is dependent on repentance and the Truth of God's Word - like sanctification, justification, living a holy life and repentant life - not man's desire to reinvent what God said.

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Okay, that makes more sense now. If you believe that salvation is dependent on santification and living a holy life, then no wonder you don't like Rick Warren. You won't like me much either, or probably the vast majority of the pastors on this board.

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
Rick Warren on contemplative prayer, the emergence of the New Age Church, and Eastern mysticism:

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Let's start with one at a time.

What did you find wrong at http://www.pastors.com/RWMT/printerfriendly.asp?issue=144&artID=5387?

Just one quote: "Commit it all to God - Your Heavenly Father wants every bit of your life, even the parts you don’t want to give – especially the parts you don’t want to give! Take a look at your life and find the areas you haven’t really given over to Him. Make a commitment to surrender those areas now. Where do you start? Start with the one part of your life that came to your mind when you were asked to commit it all to God. The area you least want to give up is the area He most wants you to give up. That may be your wallet, your children, your career - anything you're unwilling to give up. Do it today!"

Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
That Jesus Christ is God, that salvation is dependent on repentance and the Truth of God's Word - like sanctification, justification, living a holy life and repentant life - not man's desire to reinvent what God said.

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Okay, that makes more sense now. If you believe that salvation is dependent on santification and living a holy life, then no wonder you don't like Rick Warren. You won't like me much either, or probably the vast majority of the pastors on this board. </font>[/QUOTE]Very funny - I see that you have a sense of humor.

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
That Jesus Christ is God, that salvation is dependent on repentance and the Truth of God's Word - like sanctification, justification, living a holy life and repentant life - not man's desire to reinvent what God said.

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Now how does that compare with God's word found in 1 Cor. 3:15, "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

and

Titus 3:5-7, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done/ righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
That Jesus Christ is God, that salvation is dependent on repentance and the Truth of God's Word - like sanctification, justification, living a holy life and repentant life - not man's desire to reinvent what God said.

Click to expand...

Okay, that makes more sense now. If you believe that salvation is dependent on santification and living a holy life, then no wonder you don't like Rick Warren. You won't like me much either, or probably the vast majority of the pastors on this board. </font>[/QUOTE]Very funny - I see that you have a sense of humor.

</font>[/QUOTE]I do have a pretty good sense of humor, and it gets me in the dog house quite often. But I really wasn't being funny here. Your words show that you believe in salvation through works, which makes you a false teacher. And as a false teacher, it's understandable how someone who preaches salvation by grace through faith in Christ, as Rick Warren most definately does, would be someone you would disagree with.

Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
That Jesus Christ is God, that salvation is dependent on repentance and the Truth of God's Word - like sanctification, justification, living a holy life and repentant life - not man's desire to reinvent what God said.

Click to expand...

Okay, that makes more sense now. If you believe that salvation is dependent on santification and living a holy life, then no wonder you don't like Rick Warren. You won't like me much either, or probably the vast majority of the pastors on this board. </font>[/QUOTE]Very funny - I see that you have a sense of humor.

</font>[/QUOTE]I do have a pretty good sense of humor, and it gets me in the dog house quite often. But I really wasn't being funny here. Your words show that you believe in salvation through works, which makes you a false teacher. And as a false teacher, it's understandable how someone who preaches salvation by grace through faith in Christ, as Rick Warren most definately does, would be someone you would disagree with. </font>[/QUOTE]Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work.

2Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1Jo 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Phil 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing all of you be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

1 Tim 4:16 Take heed unto yourself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this you shall both save yourself, and them that hear you.

1 Tim 6:11 But you, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, unto which you are also called, and have professed a good profession before many witnesses. :17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy; . . . 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Heb 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; 13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. 14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

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Try looking at the tenses associated with salvation. Salvation is referred to in the past, present and future tenses in scripture.

1 John 5:11-13, “And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.”

Eph. 2:8,9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Well, that pretty much confirms it. **Personal insult removed** You're worrying about a speck in Rick Warren's eye when you have a telephone pole sticking out of your own.

[ January 03, 2006, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Click to expand...

Try looking at the tenses associated with salvation. Salvation is referred to in the past, present and future tenses in scripture.

1 John 5:11-13, “And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.”

Eph. 2:8,9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." </font>[/QUOTE]John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Are you a master of Israel, and know not these things?

Salvation is not just a prayer asking Jesus into your heart. This is what RW teaches. Salvation is a born again of the Spirit, blood washed, repentant and confession of sin believing that Jesus is the Son of God made flesh - the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb for sin. If this concept is not taught a person cannot be saved.

I did not say that salvation is not of grace and faith. That is understood. Are we babes or are we speaking of meat? You and I both know that salvation is more than just saying "come into my heart Lord Jesus". If there is not an expression of deep contriteness of heart and soul for the awesome and extreme price that Jesus paid to reconcile us to God by paying for our sins with His life and saving us from the eternity of hell fire [which RW also does not teach] then you are not saved.

I Cor 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nothing things that are:

1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

1:30 But of him are all of you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glories, let him glory in the Lord.

2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech (o. logos) or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

2:4 And my speech (o. logos) and my preaching was not with enticing words (o. logos) of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit (o. pneuma) and of power:

2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

2:6 Nevertheless we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nothing:

2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

2:9 But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.

2:10 But God has revealed them unto us by his Spirit: (o. pneuma) for the Spirit (o. pneuma) searches all things, yea, the deep things of God.

2:11 For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit (o. pneuma) of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit (o. pneuma) of God.

2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit (o. pneuma) of the world, but the spirit (o. pneuma) which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words (o. logos) which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit (o. pneuma) teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

2:14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit (o. pneuma) of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2:15 But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

2:16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:

Salvation is not just a prayer asking Jesus into your heart. This is what
RW teaches. Salvation is a born again of the Spirit, blood washed,
repentant and confession of sin believing that Jesus is the Son of God
made flesh - the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb for sin. If this concept is not
taught a person cannot be saved.

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So according to you a child could not be saved because he does not
understand repentance and confession?

Mk. 10:15, "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of
God like a child will not enter it at all."

Maybe you should take a cursory look at what Saddleback requires of new
members. I found that what he requires is far more than what most Baptist
churches require from their deacons.

To become a member each person must take a four hour class and sign a card
agreeing to abide by some basic biblical principles.

How many churches do you know require such basic commitment.

Before you proclaim what you think Warren believes what not read what he
reads on the church's website.

http://saddleback.com/flash/believe2.html

[/B]WHAT WE BELIEVE

ABOUT ETERNITY
Man was created to exist forever. He will either exist eternally separated
from God by sin, or in union with God through forgiveness and salvation.
To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with
Him is eternal life. Heaven and Hell are places of eternal existence.
John 3:16; John 2:25; John 5:11-13; Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:15; 1 John
5:11-12; Matthew 25:31-46

ABOUT JESUS CHRIST
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus
lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice
for the sins of all men by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after
three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to
Heaveńs glory and will return again to earth to reign as King of
kings, and Lord of lords.
Matthew 1:22,23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5, 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14,15; 1
Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus
2:13

ABOUT SALVATION
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by
self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as
God́s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sińs penalty.
Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by
faith.
Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6, 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26;
Romans 5:1

ABOUT ETERNAL SECURITY
Because God gives man eternal life through Jesus Christ, the believer is
secure in salvation for eternity. Salvation is maintained by the grace and
power of God, not by the self-effort of the Christian. It is the grace and
keeping power of God that gives this security.
John 10:29; 2 Timothy 1:12; Hebrews 7:25; 10:10,14; 1 Peter 1:3-5

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Thoughts? Comments?

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It's impossible to make an objective comment or form an objective thought without seeing the the entire text in its full context.

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:

For people to condemn or say there is no Gospel shows only that they are reading David Cloud or snippets from interviews/books and not the real pix.

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Those who are rocking the boat are usually not the one's rowing it.

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:

I did not say that salvation is not of grace and faith.

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Yes, you did. And then you said it again.