“Real” Ability of all God’s Creatures to Respond to the Influence of Him/Seek Truth

[Benjamin]

Benjamin: finally my argument that men must freely respond

Iconoclast: Men cannot freely respond...without God....

you say without God's influence as if man just needs a little help,yet you try to word it ironically as you accuse me of doing

In my argument from the OP I say God is NOT “pulling our legs” and that we are “really” responsible to seek Him and that God’s words in the matter are as He is (Truth). And you argue that my words about this (God being Truth in His commands for all His creatures to seek Him) is ironic, go figure.



B TW, do you realize it is difficult to draw your scattered words and to separate who is speaking out of the center of quotes? That is a question concerning “reality and truth” in presenting your arguments, it inquires of “your” motives in doing so and asks for a “real” response that you might change your ways.

 

[percho]

seems that some of us here on BB just refuse to admit that its better to have our election based in, upon the Will and Plan of God than based upon ourselves making the "right decision!"

We want that fruit, We need that fruit and we are going to have that fruit.

 

[JesusFan]

If the Spirit of God wasn’t in the world no one would seek Him, no one could seek Him, but God in love provided a way for us to know Him, He put His Word into the world and showed it true through the sacrifice of His Son. God is Truth and He put His Truth in the world to give light of that Truth to all His creatures.

You present one passage in a feeble attempt to support your “must fit” doctrine and claim to have refuted the 25+ passages that command men to seek the Lord God, as if all the other words from God are void and without truth in the matter. In your “proof text” God is chastising fools, men who are doing wicked things. The LORD “looked” down; God knows all things without enquiry, but He speaks after the manner of men, He is reproving those who are opposed to Him and DO NOT seek Him.

To prove my prior point about God’s ways being judgment and this judgment being Truth (Deut 32:4)) one simply needs to read the next verse and understand the question to understand the meaning of the “one” passage you attempt to twist into supporting your doctrine and in essence put you in the same camp as the fools who are saying God’s words to seek Him are not true. Psalms 4:4 “Have all the workers of inequity no knowledge?” If you answer “Yes” to that question you are denying God’s ways of judgment being of truth!

Yet, you are so blinded by your doctrine that you do not see the fallacy in your words that rightly declare that all men are responsible to seek Him while at the same time declaring that none can. Your Mo is to say you present "bible truth" while you disregard the rest of scripture and all reason in your argument.


Salvation is all of God our Creator, He did the work, He made the sacrifice, He put the Mediator in place, He provided the light that giveth light to the whole world, He provided a way for us to obtain the ability to respond to His influences and He is the Judge of that response. God did all this in Truth because He is Truth. God did it all and this does not exclude the ability of man to have volition.

So what does our God of Truth judge us on? Well, if He judged us on this ability/volition to be perfect and good we would all fall short. So in His love He judges us on our response to the light, the truth which He gave, the influence that He puts into the world, on our love for the truth, our faith in Jesus Christ which is able to cover our sins. God gives us grace through faith in His Son and God does all this in Truth because He is Truth.

Does our faith have to be real/truth? Can our faith be true if we do not have the real/true ability to give it? Does the light that God gives the world give real/true light? Is God’s influence real /true? Does our response of faith to His influence have to be real/true? Does our love of the Truth have to be real/true for us to grow in faith? Is God’s way of judgment based on anything other than the Truth that He provided grace through faith for whosoever will believe His Truth? The answer to all these questions is YES!

Can God’s judgment be in Truth if He really didn’t give each and every one of His creatures the ability to respond in truth??? The answer to this question is a resounding, NO! Why? BECAUSE HE IS “TRUTH”!

From the beginning, the Liar in this world would have us believe that if we gained knowledge of good and evil we could be as gods. He attempts to reason with us that God words are not true. But God has showed us, each and every one of us so that we are without excuse, that with this ability of knowledge that we are not perfect and will be separated from Him because of our falling short of perfection. Does any of this exclude the fact that man would have knowledge and volition from beginning of creation? No, it goes to show the ability to choose is there. The truth is that God said, “let us reason together”. That is what He is doing in your “proof text”.

The truth is that God created all His creatures in love. The truth is that God in His wisdom had planned to put His light, Jesus Christ the Word, into world the world as an influence to reason with us in our knowledge. And the truth is that our Holy Loving God provided real grace through real faith. This is not possible without real creaturely volition. To say otherwise is theological fatalism.

Salvation is all of God; creaturely volition/the ability of man to love the truth/to have faith, testifies to how powerful He (with the attributes of Good, Love, Truth) is.

It is a totally fatalistic theology to suggest that God has fore-determined every response that every one of His creatures will make whether it be good or evil. To hold to Determinism one reveals a lack of faith in the attributes of God to be able to influence His creatures. The sad part is that the determinist often begins on a quest which results in what appears to be an attempt at assassination of His character and a quest of attributing evil to Him.

God has saw that NONE of us were in a spiritual condition to even be able to receive jesus by personal faith, as our "natural" response to Him will always be "no"

God choose to Predestine those whom He foreknew to be confirmed intot the very image of His Son...
Those peoples will receive jesus, others will reject Him "freely" as they are by very natures sinners, without God

God does NOT viliote their free wills, allows them to reject, as they want to do !

 

[Benjamin]

God has saw that NONE of us were in a spiritual condition to even be able to receive jesus by personal faith, as our "natural" response to Him will always be "no"

God choose to Predestine those whom He foreknew to be confirmed intot the very image of His Son...
Those peoples will receive jesus, others will reject Him "freely" as they are by very natures sinners, without God

God does NOT viliote their free wills, allows them to reject, as they want to do !

You totally miss/side step the argument that I've made that God commands all His creatures to respond to His influences and seek Him, and "WHY" (his words and judgment made concern the necessity of "real" creaturely volition) . You are simply repeating Determinist dogma of which you said earlier you have no part of. You say God chose to predestine out one side of your mouth and does not violate creaturely volition out of the other side. You attempt to draw the argument toward Divine foreknowledge. That is another whole tread my friend and is not concerning the argument at hand. When you do that you are creating circular arguments and a smokesreen which is a fallacy because it avoids the premise at hand.

I don't have time to pin the argument down for you if you can not follow it in order to try to get you involved in some logical reasoning. I've wasted enough time on Iconoclast and his circular arguments for now.

 

[Iconoclast]

Benjamin,
Good response in post 200. You have clarified your view and given your understanding. Still have to work now.....will respond more later on to the second half of the post....
But for now....I would like you to consider that when the Holy Spirit had Paul write Romans 3 ....he did not have your viewpoint in mind when he gave commentary on psalm 14.....it was what I put forth.[he does not just describe athiests,but all unsaved men...concluding that ALL SINNED]
Sometimes when I press quote.....the other persons posts come up....I have been trying to answer each point with a differen color. Is that what is confusing?

ps.

I don't have time to pin the argument down for you if you can not follow it in order to try to get you involved in some logical reasoning. I've wasted enough time on Iconoclast and his circular arguments for now.
__________________

thanks for wasting time on me....I know you meant to say that you wish you had more time to interact with me...but because of time pressure, that was the best you could do.

 

[Iconoclast]

Benjamin,
here is Pauls circular argument in Romans 3

9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17And the way of peace have they not known:

18There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

This is how the Holy Spirit had Paul interpret it;Here was you "view"

You present one passage in a feeble attempt to support your “must fit” doctrine and claim to have refuted the 25+ passages that command men to seek the Lord God, as if all the other words from God are void and without truth in the matter. In your “proof text” God is chastising fools, men who are doing wicked things. The LORD “looked” down; God knows all things without enquiry, but He speaks after the manner of men, He is reproving those who are opposed to Him and DO NOT seek Him.
To prove my prior point about God’s ways being judgment and this judgment being Truth (Deut 32:4)) one simply needs to read the next verse and understand the question to understand the meaning of the “one” passage you attempt to twist into supporting your doctrine and in essence put you in the same camp as the fools who are saying God’s words to seek Him are not true. Psalms 4:4 “Have all the workers of inequity no knowledge?” If you answer “Yes” to that question you are denying God’s ways of judgment being of truth!

Yet, you are so blinded by your doctrine that you do not see the fallacy in your words that rightly declare that all men are responsible to seek Him while at the same time declaring that none can. Your Mo is to say you present "bible truth" while you disregard the rest of scripture and all reason in your argument.

So...in your haste to correct me...you do not agree with the Divine wisdom given to Paul as he explains it is all men everywhere!

Perhaps if you paid more attention to the scripture here,and less to the ad homineim rants...you might modify your view of what truth is.

Now apart from your defective view of the fall and mans condition you confuse God's predestination...with fatalism??

you said this;

It is a totally fatalistic theology to suggest that God has fore-determined every response that every one of His creatures will make whether it be good or evil. To hold to Determinism one reveals a lack of faith in the attributes of God to be able to influence His creatures. The sad part is that the determinist often begins on a quest which results in what appears to be an attempt at assassination of His character and a quest of attributing evil to Him.

I am not even sure where you get this idea as it appears you are twisting together two seperate but parallel concepts. Here I will post something that is helpful to many....although you might consider it "window dressing" and a "waste of your time". I will post it for others who seek to learn more as free moral agents are able to do, especially when God is at work in them.

Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

 

[Benjamin]

Benjamin,
here is Pauls circular argument in Romans 3


This is how the Holy Spirit had Paul interpret it;Here was you "view"


So...in your haste to correct me...you do not agree with the Divine wisdom given to Paul as he explains it is all men everywhere!

You offer one proof text to support your view of determinism that no one can seek God against 25+ verses I presented of God’s commands for all men to seek Him, as if His commandments are not truly given, negated and God is just “pulling His creatures legs” about their ability/volition to seek and know Him (Truth). You reply is to then repost the verses and attempt to suggest Paul agrees with your ignorant, neglectful interpretation… (that is your argument to refute the truth of all the other passages which command men to seek Him that I presented and all the reasoning I gave that all men must have volition and the necessity for God’s words to be true when He commands all men to seek Him.)

Well….I disagree with your interpretation of your proof text in light of the rest of scripture commanding men to seek God and on the basis of the necessity of truth in His words; further, I have given sufficient reason that your one proof text to support your argument was simply reproving men for NOT seeking Him, and that it does not contradicting the rest of scripture which commands all men to seek Him in truth.

I presented an abundance of scripture that commands men to seek the Lord and my argument that men must freely respond to God’s influences to receive His promise of grace to all on the condition of “real” faith which necessarily relies on “real” creaturely volition.

You present determinist dogma about election about how some men have not been chosen to be elect and thereby saved, you balk at me and others referring to your doctrine of “pre-selection“ while you attempt to redefine the meaning of predestination.

My argument stands that volition/ability of all man to choose to seek God must be true for God to be Truth in His ways of judgment.

 

[Iconoclast]

You offer one proof text to support your view of determinism that no one can seek God against 25+ verses I presented of God’s commands for all men to seek Him, as if His commandments are not truly given, negated and God is just “pulling His creatures legs” about their ability/volition to seek and know Him (Truth). You reply is to then repost the verses and attempt to suggest Paul agrees with your ignorant, neglectful interpretation… (that is your argument to refute the truth of all the other passages which command men to seek Him that I presented and all the reasoning I gave that all men must have volition and the necessity for God’s words to be true when He commands all men to seek Him.)

Well….I disagree with your interpretation of your proof text in light of the rest of scripture commanding men to seek God and on the basis of the necessity of truth in His words; further, I have given sufficient reason that your one proof text to support your argument was simply reproving men for NOT seeking Him, and that it does not contradicting the rest of scripture which commands all men to seek Him in truth.

I presented an abundance of scripture that commands men to seek the Lord and my argument that men must freely respond to God’s influences to receive His promise of grace to all on the condition of “real” faith which necessarily relies on “real” creaturely volition.

You present determinist dogma about election about how some men have not been chosen to be elect and thereby saved, you balk at me and others referring to your doctrine of “pre-selection“ while you attempt to redefine the meaning of predestination.

My argument stands that volition/ability of all man to choose to seek God must be true for God to be Truth in His ways of judgment.

Benjamin , in an earlier post I pointed out to you that those are all fine verses I like them! It is just that i said to you that the verses you offered are given to both believers,and unbelievers. We are all to seek God everyday.
While they are good verses, they do not address the condition of the dead sinner however.
All men everywhere are commanded to repent and believe the gospel....yet Jesus said ...No man can come unless the Father draw them>

both are true...they are commanded to repent and believe
sin and spiritual death bind them...so they cannot..even though they are responsible too.
In mercy Jesus seeks and saves a multitude. you know the verses ezk34.lk19

friend.....you can keep your "arguement',opinion, philosophy....as you state it.

I will keep the one God has made known to me....the way I express it...not the way you and others re-write what I say.:thumbs::thumbs:

I did notice that you avoid comment on the well worded statement from the 1689....confession of faith. I think you avoid it,because to be honest...you really cannot find fault with it or the verses offered.
Thank you for standing your ground and responding.I think you are sincere.
We do not agree at this time.I am sorry I can not be of more help to you on this...maybe another time.

 

[Benjamin]

I will keep the one God has made known to me....the way I express it...not the way you and others re-write what I say.:thumbs::thumbs:

I believe you keep what Calvinism/Determinism had made known to you…the way you express it is illogical and lacks reasoning skills…and you don’t like it when others put practical reasoning to your words.

Benjamin , in an earlier post I pointed out to you that those are all fine verses I like them! It is just that i said to you that the verses you offered are given to both believers,and unbelievers. We are all to seek God everyday.
While they are good verses, they do not address the condition of the dead sinner however.

So as per the Title: “Real” Ability of all God’s Creatures to Respond to the Influence of Him/Seek Truth you would declare all God’s creatures are commanded to seek God, yet along with this you declare God’s creatures are in a condition that they can not respond.

1) This says to me that you do not believe the response is “real” to at least some of God’s creatures because you say they are in a condition that they cannot respond.
2) You agree with the scriptures that all are to seek, but you keep to a manmade doctrine that man is Totally Deprived and unable to do so.
3) The ability of all God’s creatures to respond as commanded to those “fine verses” is not “real”, they cannot seek truth because the truth the truth is not readily available to man in his condition.


You can not express to me whether all God’s creatures have the “real” ability to respond to God’s command to seek truth. The answer must be either “true” or “false”; it cannot be both.

Free will should be defined as volition and this sustains the meaning that a creature has the ability to consciously choose; one can not do both, have this ability and not have this ability in any logical sense. If creaturely response is determined by causal means to have an irresistible effect on the creature then creaturely volition logically becomes void.

BTW, I addressed the condition/nature of man and the necessity for truth in judgment. This went unanswered.

All men everywhere are commanded to repent and believe the gospel....yet Jesus said ...No man can come unless the Father draw them>

All men are commanded to repent of their ways and believe the Gospel, yet you declare what logically amounts to that Jesus gives some men the bad news that they can’t unless they are specially pre-selected by the Father to be drawn. According to your logic this command is not true/real for all men.

Again you provide one “proof text” to keep what God/or should we say your Determinist Doctrine has made known to you. BTW, I presented many scriptures (maybe you missed it)that contradict what is specially known to you about some men having no ability/hope in the matter and what we are told to preach:

(Joh 12:32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

The Word reveals the “truth” that faith is near; with the heart (faith) a person believes and whosoever believes in Him will not be disappointed (Rom 10:8-11). Those are the words we are to preach to the world!

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

God truly gave Himself as a ransom for all (1Tim 2:3-6).

(1Ti 2:3) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
(1Ti 2:4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
(1Ti 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
(1Ti 2:6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

He is a God of Truth and a Rewarder of those who seek Him. (Heb 11:6).

(Heb 11:6) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The invitation of grace through faith is real and extends to all (1Jn 2:2).

(1Jn 2:2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

both are true...they are commanded to repent and believe
sin and spiritual death bind them...so they cannot..even though they are responsible too.
In mercy Jesus seeks and saves a multitude. you know the verses ezk34.lk19

You keep saying men are commanded to do something they have no ability to do, sounds like you have been shown it is an empty promise to me, but I would not attribute that understanding to God.

BTW, I addressed the necessity of God being Truth, along with His character and ways of judgment:

…and all men (In His perfect work of creation) are commanded to seek and not without purpose, (a genuine offer of grace through faith for all His creatures) again, for all God ways are judgment (Deut 32:4) and that is not possible without the true condition of creaturely volition to respond to the truth of the promise, or not.

(Deu 32:4) He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

This went unanswered.

friend.....you can keep your "arguement',opinion, philosophy....as you state it.

Oh, trust me, I will keep the Truth and continue preaching to all men that they Truly have real hope in the promises of our Loving God.

I will keep the one God has made known to me....the way I express it...not the way you and others re-write what I say.

You mean you will keep to the philosophy of Calvin…express it in that dogmatic light…and deny what your words actually mean?

I did notice that you avoid comment on the well worded statement from the 1689....confession of faith. I think you avoid it,because to be honest...you really cannot find fault with it or the verses offered.

Not interested in going down that rabbit trail that is nothing more than your typical smokescreen tactics to avoid and retract from the argument that has already been made here.

Thank you for standing your ground and responding.I think you are sincere.
We do not agree at this time.I am sorry I can not be of more help to you on this...maybe another time.

Yes, I was sincere in the arguments and heard loud and clear what you believe about all men (not) having the real ability to respond to the influence of God, no reason to be sorry about helping me, I am fine and don’t blame you for not being able to logically express a view that makes no sense if you are proving it as both true and false. :thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

Directed towards Brother Benjamin

Bro. Benjamin,

Do you think that man, of his own choosing, can come to God, without Him drawing him first? I hope that you do not take this as me leading you, or that I have a false motive in that question.

Now, I believe that no man will come to God apart from Him calling that man. All I can go with is my experiences. When I was a sinner, I WAS a sinner. I enjoyed it, loved it, and I guess idolized it. To serve God was the last thing I wanted to do. Sure, I had many that told me I needed to be saved(and I agreed, but I was still enjoying my sinning), and sometimes I went to church at the request of a family member or friend. But I wouldn't get anything from the singing, the preaching, hearing the members shout glories unto Him. I didn't want to be one of them. I wanted my sinful life, and that was good enough for me. There were times I would get scared of going to hell, and I would "start" going to church, but the Spirit wasn't drawing me at that time, so in time, back to my sinful life, and all the fun I was having. Then one morning, I heard a message on the radio, and it got me to thinking about where I was headed. God began drawing me, and then I started going to church. I wanted to hear the singing, the preaching, the shouts of glory praising Him....I wanted to be one of them. The Spirit was drawing me to God, but I did not know how to get there. One night, when I had done all I knew to do, I was still lost, and then God took over, and He made me over BRAND NEW!! I could not have done this on my own, but God had to first, set up a Godly sorrow(1 Cor. 7:10), then He had to draw me unto Himself(John 6:44 and 12:32), and then He saved me(Eph. 2:8,9).

Now, I agree with you on FW. I will defend FW till the day I day, or God shows me differently. It is those who fail to heed to His calling that will not come...not that they can not come, but rather, will not come.

 

[Benjamin]

Bro. Benjamin,

Do you think that man, of his own choosing, can come to God, without Him drawing him first? I hope that you do not take this as me leading you, or that I have a false motive in that question.

Now, I believe that no man will come to God apart from Him calling that man. All I can go with is my experiences...

I believe God draws all men. I don’t think He draws them by force though so in that sense they do of their own choosing come to Him. In my experience I believed there was a God from the time I was a little boy but I had only went to church a couple of times and no one really spoke much about Him in my home. I was taught “now I layme down to sleep” and I liked saying that before I went to bed and I thought a lot about dying and never waking up but I believed God was a good, kind and loving God and would take care of me if I died, I believed He loved me. Growing up I felt His presence and that He protected me at times and I dreamed a few times that He talked to me yet it didn’t seem like a dream, I still don’t know. I felt that He was watching me and my conscience bothered me at times because of that. I prayed occasionally in times of trouble and a few times when something out of the ordinary happened afterwards I would wonder if that was Him. That’s all I knew, I didn’t know the Gospel, understand Trinity, or anything and only went to church with a co-worker one other time when I was 19; it was Pentecostal charismatic type and the preacher told everyone to close their eyes and asked a question about if anyone didn’t know whether for sure they would go to heaven, I raised my hand, we then open our eyes and he asked that anyone who raised their hand to come down. The other people must have peeked and started grabbing and pushing at me but I gave them the look that they better keep their hands off and made it clear I wasn’t into playing these games. I never got invited back.

I lived a very hard and sinful life and hung out with a rough crowd; we won’t go into details but let’s just say I’ve been really hurt, really bad and very unhappy. At 33 my life was about to fall apart in a big way, I was tough but this was more than I felt I could bare. I was drawn to God because I believed that He was Good, Love, and Wise and that somehow He had revealed this to me that this was the truth, which was the influence I needed. I had no one on this earth to turn to for help, and one night I cried out to God that only He could help me, my ways weren’t working, and I needed Him to guide me in my life and cried that I needed to know Him and be able to hear Him. I died to myself that night and surrendered my life to Him and I instantly felt a remarkable peace come unto me that I had never known. The next day I picked up the Bible not knowing anything about it…LOL...I preached about this in front of the congregation:

I didn’t know hardly anything about this Book and figured it was mostly going to be telling me I was going to Hell for all the things I had done…that is what the world had been telling me about those church-going Christians and their Bibles…

But in a new and growing faith, I opened up the Book...it went like this… (illustrate, sit down)

…and started thumbing through it and saw Genesis, yeah Eve and the apple, knew that much…Exodus… Judges/Oh great!!!… and… J…O…B…job…and thought, Oh, here we go…it’s all about being judged and being given a job to work my way out of this mess…ahh…rub stress off…, maybe I should look in the newer part, and so began looking at the names and thought, hmm, John sounds like a friendly name let’s see what he’s got to say about God. Oddly enough, the first sentence certainly seemed like it might be a good place to start:

John 1:1
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word is God???

John 1:2-10
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(4) In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
(5) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

(You know, That comprehension part rather hits home.)

(6) There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
(7) The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
(8) He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

(The light out of the darkness, the Word, that all men might believe…John seems to be doing his job of being a witness here, I like this guy!)

(9) That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Well, that sounds like a promise to every man that they can know the true light. This Book is talking about truth, and that John was sent by God to bare witness that Jesus was the Light, and the Truth, and that Jesus is the Word …so maybe this is saying these Words aren’t so much John’s but are God’s???... all this is promising and if so, there is no better way of getting to know God and maybe get some guidance in my life through this letter He wrote us!

(10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Wow!,.. just like me, I’ve heard of Him, but I don’t really know Him.

I read over that passage several times and sat and thought about it. I prayed about understanding those Words and to come out of the darkness and to see and know the Light… I then went back a ways and opened up to that red lettering in Mathew and picked up on 7:7 and it said…Ask…

Just then I recognized that I was seeing the truth about that Light in the Word, I had asked when I cried out to God to know Him; I was seeking when I opened up that Bible, I knocked on the door in prayer to hear His voice and He was speaking to me, right now, through these Words, His Words were telling me Who He is and this communication was a direct answer to my prayers. I sat in astonishment thinking about how these Words suddenly came before me as I turned the pages in a Book I knew nothing about and they addressed the very thing I asked for and I became overwhelmed with how precisely they did so. I understood that this strange feeling of His Hand on my shoulder was real, full of love and wisdom, and was guiding me. My hardened heart had been busted wide open and long held back tears swelled up in my eyes and began streaming down my face…and my faith grew. (Stand back up)



Anyway, I began reading the bible everyday, my relationship with Him grew and I started feeling guilty of not deserving His love and often asked for more faith in tears. It seemed that everything I asked to know about life and love that I would open up the Bible to just where I got those answers and my faith continued to grow and I really came to understand that He is LOVE. Too late to make a long story short, although it goes on and on and on….but God explained what He had done for me and I loved Him back with all my heart. I started going to church about a year after turning to Him.

I believe I was saved the moment I chose to surrender my life to Him.

 

[Amy.G]

That's a wonderful testimony Benjamin. It sounds just like mine really. I have always believed in God and always believed the bible was God's word, but it takes reaching out and taking hold of Him to really know Him.

Thanks! :wavey:

 

[DHK]

I believe I was saved the moment I chose to surrender my life to Him.

A great example how faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Good to hear your testimony.