“The World” according to William Tyndale

[atpollard]

So pretty much EVERYONE has both heard and participated in at least one discussion that devolved … sorry, I meant revolved … around the word “WORLD” in Scripture and whether God was speaking of “all without exception” or “all without distinction”. [sigh].

This is not that.

Has anyone ever heard of William Tyndale’s position on that issue? (FYI: Yes, the Tyndale that was killed for translating the Bible into English).

From what I read, Tyndale believed that WORLD literally means WORLD … like the mountains and trees and little bunny rabbits. He believed that the Covenant was not between God and men, but a covenant among the “persons” of God. God made a “very good” world and mankind had made God’s world very bad. God created an internal covenant and a plan to restore His creation to “very good”. Saving men is just a means to an end.

The problem started when man was given dominion over the earth, and took the world down with him. So fixing the world requires fixing man.

Just curious if anyone else had ever come across this idea and if it had a name as a heresy. (Most new ideas do.)

 

[KenH]

"William Tyndale was committed to the biblical teaching of the sovereign election of God. He believed God acted before time began, in eternal love, in choosing a people whom He would save. God set His heart upon a people, elected out of the mass of fallen humanity, to be His own possession. This election of man was not based upon any foreseen choice within man. Rather, it was entirely by the free exercise of God’s will:

[Predestination] and salvation are clean taken out of our hands, and put in the hands of God only . . . for we are so weak and so uncertain, that if it stood in us, there would of a truth be no man saved; the devil, no doubt, would deceive us.

...

Why does God open one man’s eyes and not another’s? Paul (Romans 9) forbids to ask why; for it is too deep for man’s capacity. God we see is honoured thereby, and His mercy set out and the more seen in the vessels of mercy. But the popish can suffer God to have no secret, hid to Himself. They have searched to come to the bottom of His bottomless wisdom: and because they cannot attain to that secret, and be too proud to let it alone, and to grant themselves ignorant, with the apostle, that knew no other than God’s glory in the elect; they go and set up free-will with the heathen philosophers, and say that a man’s free-will is the cause why God chooses one and not another, contrary unto all the Scripture.

...

Tyndale affirmed that sovereign election glorifies God, humbles man, initiates salvation, and honors Scripture."

- more at William Tyndale on God’s Sovereign Election by Steven Lawson (ligonier.org)

 

[Alan Gross]

As opposed to both

“all without exception” or “all without distinction”.

“The World”,

in the New Testament scriptures and not according to Tyndale,
often means the same as "the creature".

That just leaves you having to determine what "the creature" means in most, if not all, places in the New Testament.

It'll never hurt anybody to understand what God has revealed for them to know.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Just curious if anyone else had ever come across this idea and if it had a name as a heresy. (Most new ideas do.)

If Tyndale believed it, it is hardly 'new.'
Acts of the Apostles 17:24. 'God, who made the world, and everything in it ........'
The Greek word kosmos has several meanings and it is the context that will decide the correct one.

 

[kyredneck]

As opposed to both

...psst, hey, you're devolving....

 

[Alan Gross]

...psst, hey, you're devolving....

O.K., let me try and dig myself out by saying this about that:

I would like to propose,
A.) that, there may be other qualifying verses where:

the word “WORLD” in Scripture ...speaking of “all without distinction”

is determined to be limited in its meaning, into a smaller group

and that this limited meaning of a smaller group of “all without distinction”
WILL ALWAYS BRING A RESTRICTION on:

the word “WORLD” in Scripture ...speaking of “all without exception”

which includes the whole group and the smaller group meaning will always reduce it down to having a meaning that is a smaller portion of the whole group that is being referred to.

In other words, verses that indicate a smaller group, such as those saying, "many", or "for the sins of His people", will restrict the verses which appear to represent the larger group, of the word “WORLD”, from still meaning the Whole World, into the smaller limited meaning of the word “WORLD” where it is then determined to be speaking of “all without distinction”.


B.) Whereas, passages using

the word “WORLD” in Scripture ...speaking of “all without exception”

is all inclusive, in its meaning,

and this broader meaning of “all without exception”
CAN NOT AND DOES NOT CAUSE A RESTRICTION on:

the word “WORLD” in Scripture ...speaking of “all without distinction”

where “all without distinction” is determined to be limited in its meaning.

In other words, verses that indicate the larger group, of the word “WORLD”, as as assumed to have a meaning the Whole World, such as those using the word, "all", "world", or "the whole world", etc., do not and can not bring a controlling restriction onto the verses which appear to represent a smaller group with their meaning of the word “WORLD”, in its limited sense and force them into increasing and changing their smaller, limited sense back into speaking of the larger group of the entire world, that would then include, “all without exception”.

Hope that helps....

 

[kyredneck]

Hope that helps....

....nope, I see more devolution...

 

[Alan Gross]

....nope, I see more devolution...

Which maybe we shouldn't go back into,
... for example, using the "all" with "ransom",

Whereas: "a ransom for many", in:

Matthew 20:28 "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many,"

...restricts what can be meant by "all", in "a ransom for all", in:

I Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus";

6 "Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,"

...since in 1 Timothy 2:6, there, "all" has to mean, "all kinds", or "all types", or "all without distinction",

...since "many", in Matthew 20:28 has already restricted this "all", in "a ransom for all", which then can not mean "all without exception".

That is one approach to determine the extent of the meaning for "all", there in I Timothy 2:6, and another approach is the confirmation, in:

I Timothy 2:1, 2, where the clincher is given as to what "all" is referring to within its own context, which shows, "all men; in verse one, to be"

2 "For kings, and for all that are in authority;" in verse 2.

By using various approaches such as these, the meaning intended by the word, "world" and "whole world", can be determined without question, or having to assume, or guess, per the O.P.

 

[kyredneck]

Which maybe we shouldn't go back into,
... for example, using the "all" with "ransom",

Egad Allen, spare us your mile long posts and respect the request of the OP.

 

[Alan Gross]

See that expand feature? It still leaves more room for your valuable advertisements to not be obscured by Bible teachings.

And I hadn't wondered around after glancing down and seeing that the topic involved was ludicrous and never noticed the understated admonistion, "This is not that".

Then, since the rest was obvious non-sense, if anyone is suggesting that "for God so loved the world", or even "love not the world" could be associated with the "From what I read, Tyndale believed that WORLD literally means WORLD … like the mountains and trees and little bunny rabbits," I couldn't be bored with it.

Getting into it would unearth the word "world" as often having the exact same meaning as, "creatures", and that both of them with that meaning are used several times throughout the New Testament.

But, who here on the BB do you think is ready to drop enough of their presuppositions to be enlightened by that? And that the Bible meaning for the words "world" and "creatures" are both, "the Gentiles'"? Since they are all talking about you are me where God is giving us revelation about ourselves!

What scriptures do you think he was referring to that have the word, "world", in them?

So, since I didn't see any scriptures reference down in the body right quick, to hang my hat on, I stayed up top and didn't see the qualifier: "This is not that."

Egad, kyredneck, I'm no more perspicacious at times than you are!

respect the request of the OP.[/QUOTE]

You're welcome. I'm glad you noticed.

By using various approaches such as these, the meaning intended by the word, "world" and "whole world", can be determined without question, or having to assume, or guess, per the O.P.

Unless you see and get the hint about, "This is not that".


"Which maybe we shouldn't go back into," is like;
"Which we won't go into, for example", and is a joke. Glad you noticed.
It's like, "that's enough about me, let me tell you want kind of music I like".
They are all absurd self-contridictions.

I was using that joke to finesse around your anticipated and intended to be harmless and funny, but nevertheless, knee-jerk rejections.

...psst, hey, you're devolving
....nope, I see more devolution

I was just rejecting your rejection, and obfuscating your anticipated habitual personal rejections, to ignore them, and just post what was on my heart about the topic, as a personal work expressing worship to the Lord. Didn't you notice that?

I selected the "all" portion of the O.P., to introduce some beginner approaches to determine the meaning of a word in the Bible by adopting some hermeneutics, rather than allowing the discussion to give credence to simply employing the flesh, as evidenced in the O.P. You should have been able to pick up on that.

Unless you'd seen and got the hint about, "This is not that".
Which I guess you did. Strong work.


Which maybe we shouldn't go back into,
... for example, using the "all" with "ransom",

From the outlying no-man's-land portion of the the O.P.; and yet,
It'll never hurt anybody to understand what God has revealed for them to know.

"the word “WORLD” in Scripture and whether God was speaking of “all without exception” or “all without distinction”.

, spare us your mile long posts

I don't remember anything about that. Didn't notice it.

Allen

That would be, "Alan", btw. Where are you from? (another joke. We're probably about 30 miles apart. Heck. I've been that close to a Beatle).

 

[kyredneck]

Has anyone ever heard of William Tyndale’s position on that issue?

Hey! @tyndale1946, come thither, splain this!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Has anyone ever heard of William Tyndale’s position on that issue? (FYI: Yes, the Tyndale that was killed for translating the Bible into English).

A couple of years ago I bought the Complete Works of Tyndale when Banner of Truth had an offer on. I only got about a third of my way through when I got busy with other stuff and put it on one side.
However, in what I read I didn't find anything un orthodox about Tyndale's understanding of 'world.' Can you give me an example?

From what I read, Tyndale believed that WORLD literally means WORLD … like the mountains and trees and little bunny rabbits.

As I said earlier, sometimes kosmos clearly does mean 'Planet Earth.' The context decides.

He believed that the Covenant was not between God and men, but a covenant among the “persons” of God. God made a “very good” world and mankind had made God’s world very bad. God created an internal covenant and a plan to restore His creation to “very good”. Saving men is just a means to an end.

The problem started when man was given dominion over the earth, and took the world down with him. So fixing the world requires fixing man.

This is called 'Covenant Theology.' The intra-Trinity covenant is called the Covenant or Council of Redemption.

Just curious if anyone else had ever come across this idea and if it had a name as a heresy. (Most new ideas do.)

It is possibly known as a heresy among Roman Catholics.

 

[atpollard]

However, in what I read I didn't find anything un orthodox about Tyndale's understanding of 'world.' Can you give me an example?
As I said earlier, sometimes kosmos clearly does mean 'Planet Earth.' The context decides.

In John 3:16, when God so loved the world that He gave His only son … did YOU think that He meant “the Planet Earth” in that context and Jesus came to redeem CREATION as His primary objective? (Because God loved ALL of his creation … not just the people He created).

I came upon it from a secondary source, thus the curiosity about anyone that might be more familiar with it.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

In John 3:16, when God so loved the world that He gave His only son … did YOU think that He meant “the Planet Earth” in that context and Jesus came to redeem CREATION as His primary objective? (Because God loved ALL of his creation … not just the people He created).

I came upon it from a secondary source, thus the curiosity about anyone that might be more familiar with it.

I cannot speak for Tyndale, but I regard it as a very possible translation. Indeed, when atheists or humanists ask me how a loving God can allow wars, earthquakes, famines and the like, part of my reply involves John 3:16. This is how God has loved Planet Earth; He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. The world is the way it is because of sin, but God has taken radical action to put things right. That action involves His Son paying the penalty for sin on behalf of all who will believe. When Christ returns, there will be a new heavens and new earth where righteousness reigns.

I don't say it is the only possible translation, but I think it works quite well.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

In John 3:16, when God so loved the world that He gave His only son … did YOU think that He meant “the Planet Earth” in that context and Jesus came to redeem CREATION as His primary objective? (Because God loved ALL of his creation … not just the people He created).

I came upon it from a secondary source, thus the curiosity about anyone that might be more familiar with it.

I cannot speak for Tyndale, but I regard it as a very possible translation. Indeed, when atheists or humanists ask me how a loving God can allow wars, earthquakes, famines and the like, part of my reply involves John 3:16. This is how God has loved Planet Earth; He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. The world is the way it is because of sin, but God has taken radical action to put things right. That action involves His Son paying the penalty for sin on behalf of all who will believe. When Christ returns, there will be a new heavens and new earth where righteousness reigns.

I don't say it is the only possible translation, but I think it works quite well.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Hey! @tyndale1946, come thither, splain this!

hither and thither?!?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

A couple of years ago I bought the Complete Works of Tyndale when Banner of Truth had an offer on. I only got about a third of my way through when I got busy with other stuff and put it on one side.
However, in what I read I didn't find anything un orthodox about Tyndale's understanding of 'world.' Can you give me an example?
As I said earlier, sometimes kosmos clearly does mean 'Planet Earth.' The context decides.

This is called 'Covenant Theology.' The intra-Trinity covenant is called the Covenant or Council of Redemption.

It is possibly known as a heresy among Roman Catholics.

Don’t go there Stephen… instead reference the Church of England cause the RC’s too busy financing drug cartels & Illegals overwhelming countries. Think Guy Fawks, think November 5th and stop the steal.

 

[kyredneck]

Hey! @tyndale1946, come thither, splain this!

hither and thither?!?

<oops>

Hey! @tyndale1946, come hither, splain this!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

<oops>

Hey! @tyndale1946, come hither, splain this!

LOL…. He should, after all they are addressing his names choice.

 

[tyndale1946]

<oops>

Hey! @tyndale1946, come hither, splain this!

Someone calleth me forth?... I cometh hither and I shall not dither and I shall elucidate as a Christian Gentleman... I thinketh my learned Christian Brother William Tyndale, haveth more illustrations of the word world, as I do also... I don't believeth, he would declareth a misunderstanding of scripture as he erroreth... Haveth I answereth it plainly?... Brother Gleneth