1 John 1:8

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

1 John 1:8 has always been the source of interpretation difficulties and or differences of opinions.

What is your take on this verse and why?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

I take this verse literally. If we say that we have achieved sinless perfection we have deceived ourself. We have no regard for the truth that we will be sinners until we receive our glorified bodies.

 

[Melanie]

blimpy blimp blimp

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Pastor Bob: I take this verse literally. If we say that we have achieved sinless perfection we have deceived ourself. We have no regard for the truth that we will be sinners until we receive our glorified bodies.

HP: Sinless perfection, as I have encountered it in the past, is usually used as a phrase to debunk any that feel that they have a pure heart before God and walking in all the light they have. I am unsure how you are using the term.

If we are to assume that this verse is alluding to or stating that one cannot at anytime be free from sin, how do we interpret the verses directly preceding it? 1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from (notice it does not say 'in' but rather 'from') all sin.

Is it possible to be cleansed 'from' ALL sin while sin remains? Are we limited to the notion that we are in a 'positional sense only' made righteous but in reality we simply keep on sinning? Is this verse saying that anyone that believes they can repent and forsake sin is simply fooling themselves, and as such making themselves out to be simply liars? Can we only forsake some sin but of necessity forced by our natures to hold onto other sins?

Can I testify that God has indeed freed me from the bondage of sin in this present world, and that I am no longer a slave to sin, or would that be tantamount to being a liar? Is God only able to help us overcome certain sins in this life or is He willing and able to give us victory over every sin in this present world?

 

[TCGreek]

I take this verse literally. If we say that we have achieved sinless perfection we have deceived ourself. We have no regard for the truth that we will be sinners until we receive our glorified bodies.

As simple as that! :thumbs:

 

[Bro. Williams]

I just take it to mean that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. But that's just me.

 

[David Lamb]

blimpy blimp blimp

Sorry, but what does your message mean? Is it perhaps an Australian expression? I know that "blimpish" means "pompous", but that doesn't seem to fit here, as the only two messages before yours in this thread were the OP, and Pastor Bob's reply beginning, "I take this verse literally." As far as I can see, there is nothing in the least pompous in either.

 

[BobRyan]

No human is sinless -- (no not even Mary).

But as Romans 6 and 1Cor 10 point out in bright shiny colors - that does NOT mean that sin is to rule as IF we have no choice "but to sin" once we are saved.

Those who claim that sin must continue to be master over Christians are not reading the whole Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[soninme]

1 John 1-8

1 John 1 - 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

fellowship with god requires that we acknowledge the truth concerning ourselfs.
for instance to deny that we have a sinful nature means self-deception and untruthfulness.
but praise the lord , christ died for our sin and our sins .

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from (notice it does not say 'in' but rather 'from') all sin.

HP: How do all you literalists interpret this verse which directly precceds 1:8? Are we cleansed 'in' our sins or 'from' our sins? Does our actual sin remain or is it as that song we sang as children, g-o-n-e- gone? "Gone Gone, Gone ,Gone, Gone, Yes our sins are gone!"

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

1 John 1 - 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Soninme: fellowship with God requires that we acknowledge the truth concerning ourselfs.
for instance to deny that we have a sinful nature means self-deception and untruthfulness.
but praise the Lord , Christ died for our sin and our sins .

HP: Now this is interesting. I certainly have met many a sinner that acknowledges the truth concerning themselves, who openly admit they are rebels living away from God. No fellowship there.

Where does Scripture ever state that we must admit to our sinful nature, and if we do not we are self-deceived and untruthful? Certainly a sinner must admit that he is a sinner and in need of a Savior, but where is the part about admitting ones ‘sinful ‘nature? Are you suggesting that one has to admit to original sin or he is a liar and self-deceived, and as such cannot inherit the kingdom of God?

It would seem to me that humility is indeed a great quality, but to take it to the level that denies God willing and able to purify ones heart, mind and soul and spirit through faith ‘in this present world,’ is to deny the power of God promised to the believer.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

No human is sinless -- (no not even Mary).

Since Jesus was fully human, He was sinless. On a side note, the Roman Catholic dogma of the Immaculate Conception is due in large part to the Augustinian theology of the Atonement of Christ. The Western (Protestant and Catholic) theology regarding the Atonement is vastly different than that of the Eastern Orthodox Church.
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[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Agnus Dei: Since Jesus was fully human, He was sinless.

HP: Now that is certainly fodder for the thread. Christ indeed did prove once and for all that a man can indeed obey God, IF he will.

Can you imagine what some, even those that have expressed their views on this list, would have done to Christ if they lived in his day? What names would they have called Him? Just think about it. The son of the carpenter down the block claims to be without sin!! Where are the stones?!

 

[Agnus_Dei]

HP: Now that is certainly fodder for the thread. Christ indeed did prove once and for all that a man can indeed obey God, IF he will.

Hi HP

Have you ever heard of the Philokalia? It’s a collection of writings by the Desert Fathers between 300 AD and 1400 AD. These writings are essentially instructions to monks and spiritual aspirants in methods by which, to quote the full title of the collection, the mind is purified, illumined, and made perfect through practical and contemplative moral philosophy. It contains very advanced teachings ranging from advice on the proper control of the breath during prayerful contemplation to detailed instructions for the attainment of freedom from the passions.

Of course, this doesn’t mean one can learn to be sinless, but what I’ve read of it so far, I have been able to combat the temptation of entertaining impure thoughts a little more effectively than before. Living in today’s MTV society, it can be a challenge.

Anyway, the Philokalia is like 4 or 5 volumes, but you can find condensed versions, defiantly worth a read. I can recommend a good book if you like.
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[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Agnus Dei: Anyway, the Philokalia is like 4 or 5 volumes, but you can find condensed versions, defiantly worth a read. I can recommend a good book if you like.

HP: Recommend away.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

I read a short book recently that I would be happy to send you a copy if you have not read it already. It is entitled, “The Practice of the Presence of God” by Brother Lawrence who evidently was a lay brother among “the barefooted Carmelites at Paris in the year 1666”’ according to the preface of the book.

I found the book short and concise, but interesting and helpful.

 

[Melanie]

Sorry, but what does your message mean? Is it perhaps an Australian expression? I know that "blimpish" means "pompous", but that doesn't seem to fit here, as the only two messages before yours in this thread were the OP, and Pastor Bob's reply beginning, "I take this verse literally." As far as I can see, there is nothing in the least pompous in either.

....not all David...I simply used blimp instead of bump I thought it was a null word...I had deleted my response when I realised I was not adressing the question ......apologies if I annoyed you or indeed anyone at all.:type:

 

[BobRyan]

Hi HP

Have you ever heard of the Philokalia? It’s a collection of writings by the Desert Fathers between 300 AD and 1400 AD. These writings are essentially instructions to monks and spiritual aspirants in methods by which, to quote the full title of the collection, the mind is purified, illumined, and made perfect through practical and contemplative moral philosophy. It contains very advanced teachings ranging from advice on the proper control of the breath during prayerful contemplation to detailed instructions for the attainment of freedom from the passions.
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Acts 20
28 ""Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock[/b], among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
29 ""[b]I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you[/b], not sparing the flock;
30 and from among your own selves men will arise[/b], speaking perverse things, to [b]draw away the disciples after them.
31 ""Therefore [b]be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.

 

[David Lamb]

....not all David...I simply used blimp instead of bump I thought it was a null word...I had deleted my response when I realised I was not adressing the question ......apologies if I annoyed you or indeed anyone at all.:type:

Rest assured, you didn't annoy me at all - I was just puzzled.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Acts 20
28 ""Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock[/b], among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
29 ""[b]I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you[/b], not sparing the flock;
30 and from among your own selves men will arise[/b], speaking perverse things, to [b]draw away the disciples after them.
31 ""Therefore [b]be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.

So I assume you’re read the Philokalia Bob to suggest such or maybe I could post the same in regard to Ellen G. White?
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