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1689 London Baptist Confession?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by DeclareHim, Feb 13, 2006.

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  1. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim New Member

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    My question basically is what Baptist groups were involved in the creation and signing of the 1689 Baptist confession of faith? Thanks before hand.
     
    #1 DeclareHim, Feb 13, 2006
  2. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    #2 Gold Dragon, Feb 13, 2006
  3. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    DeclareHim,

    The Particular (read Calvinists) Baptist of the era. If you read the Presbyterian Confessions of the time you will see the common influence of Particular Redemption on both groups.

    This is plainly seen in the denial or Arminianism.

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #3 Rhetorician, Feb 13, 2006
  4. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    the 1689 is about as rich of a confession as you'll find. I hold it and the "Abstract of Principles" in the highest regard.
     
    #4 TomVols, Feb 14, 2006
  5. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

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    TomVols,

    Good to see someone else I agree with on this board!
     
    #5 Calvibaptist, Feb 14, 2006
  6. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim New Member

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    So were there denominations of Baptist in 1689? I know there must have been at least two because the Arminians would not have signed the above. Were the majority of Baptist involved with the 1689 Confession?
     
    #6 DeclareHim, Feb 14, 2006
  7. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe there were formal baptist conventions or associations at that time. But the primary division of that time were between Particular (Calvinistic) and General (Arminian) baptists. The 1689 confession was signed by particular baptists in England.
     
    #7 Gold Dragon, Feb 14, 2006
  8. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Hard to tell at that point whether the General Baptists (who held to general, or unlimited, atonement) or the Particular Baptists (who held to particular, or limited, atonement) were in the majority at that time; the Generals, for example, were numerous in the Midlands, as opposed to the London area.

    Both groups had grown in the early 17th century and were plagued by persecution under the later Stuarts. After the 1689 confession, the Generals declined more rapidly than the Particulars and almost disappeared in England.

    The split among the Baptists long predates 1689. The Helwys confession of 1611 owes more to Arminianism than Calvinism. The 1644-46 First London Confession is Calvinistic, as is the 1689 London Confession. The Midland Generals issued The Faith and Practice of Thirty Congregations in 1651, which leans toward unlimited atonement.
     
    #8 rsr, Feb 14, 2006
  9. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Formal Baptist associations date from at least the mid-17th century, as evidenced by the Midlands Confession. The Generals had a national general assembly by 1653.
     
    #9 rsr, Feb 14, 2006
  10. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the correction and information, rsr.
     
    #10 Gold Dragon, Feb 14, 2006
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Me too!
     
    #11 OldRegular, Feb 14, 2006
  12. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Me three!! Now the Vols on the other hand ....
     
    #12 whatever, Feb 15, 2006
  13. Russ Kelly

    Russ Kelly New Member

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    Great information. Thanks guys.
    From my reading of the early confessions I conclude that the pastors were self-supporting. They had very limited support from the congregation. Do you agree?
     
    #13 Russ Kelly, Feb 15, 2006
  14. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Me four.

    Remember also that they used Martin Luther's confession as a starting point or reference when creating this confession. So it is misleading to imply that this was created out of the minds of Particular "Calvinist" baptists, unless you want to lump Martin Luther into that category.
     
    #14 npetreley, Feb 16, 2006
  15. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    English Particular baptist created and signed the 1689 confession. They were obviously strongly influenced by the Reformed Westminister Confession of Faith.

    However, they were also influenced by many other theologies of their day of which Luther is definitely a prominent one. Do we also need to mention the influence of Wycliff and the Lollards on Luther the influence of Augustine on Calvin, etc? How far back do we need to go? I think it is assumed that the particular baptists who created the 1689 confession were influenced by many of their contemporaries as well as theologians before them.
     
    #15 Gold Dragon, Feb 16, 2006
  16. nate

    nate New Member

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    #16 nate, Feb 16, 2006
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