3 classes of People

I don't think that called and elect is the same thing. The called are those who believe on the Lord, but the elect are those who will reign with Christ during the kingdom.

 

Choose

Let me be the first to welcome you back James and say that I am really glad to see you posting again.

Now after all the welcome I will approach your thread tomorrow. I have a busy day tomorrow and have to get in bed early tonight. But don't be surprised if I don't agree with you. :laugh: :laugh:

I will give you a little hint where I will be going. God is infinite and omnipotent and knows all things at once. He saw us believe when we were in our mother's womb, wait a minute, He saw us believe before the foundation of the world. To change it around, He saw us believe at the end when He Glorifies us. He is everlasting to everlasting and without time. He is a timeless God and He saw us believe and called us, He saw us believe and called us then He predestinated to be conformed to His image, he justified us, He Glorified us. We have to wait for it is in the future for us but for God He is there now. He know our very death, He has seen us die already even though as men we have to wait but God does not. He never willed us to sin, He never willed us for righteous but gave us the choice. He saw what that choice was before we were ever born and that is why we were called etc.

I said I would wait but guess I got carried away. peace

We not fooling around James but getting right into it.

 

Yes. The word that is translated as "elect" is "called out". In other words, those called out from among the called, and the called are from among the saved. Many are called, but few are elect. As you say, the elect are those who will be ruling and reigning with Christ in his coming Kingdom.

 

Welcome back James. Things will go better this time. What would you think of the idea that there are only two types of people, elect and unelect?

 

You state that my view as you understand is that God looked down through time but my view is that God sees everything at once. There is no ages or time with God but as He looked He saw everlasting to everlasting. As in "the elder shall server the younger" God is looking at that now and sees Jacob and Esaau and knows the elder serves the younger.

Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
So He is "timeless" and sees all in a moment the beginning unto the end. He never willed sin on anyone nor did He will righteous on anyone but could see or does see in a "timeless" God who "believed".

The foundation of the world and now are no different with Him and neither is the end. We look at things in time but God is omnipresent and everywhere at once so He sees when we believe and those are who He calls, predestinates to be conformed to the image of His son, justified and Glorified.
We have to wait until the future to be glorified but God is already there for He knows all things and already sees us Gorified.

2 Timothy, chapter 2
19: Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20: But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21: If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22: Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23: But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24: And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25: In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26: And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

(God gave them a right to repent and they did, you have to take it in context)

Acts, chapter 11
18: When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
19: Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
20: And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus.
21: And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.

(Same here He gave the Gentiles a right to repent, you have to take it in context and not just one line.)

 

Not hard at all when you realize that God is timeless and sees now, and before the foundation of the world and the end of the world "who believes that Jesus is the Christ", and calls those who "believe".

 

I understand the foreseen faith view, but I find a problem. How is it that under that view that man does not basically elect himself. Does this not place God under obligation, thus excluding grace?

We all believe in salvation by grace. Where we find differing views is whether it's all of grace, or part grace and part something else.

The second view is identified by the expression. "God has done his part, now you must do your part."

Or, "Jesus has done all that he can, now it's up to you."

What we say then is Jesus really hasn't done enough. His death on the cross did not really pay it all. It really isn't "finished." God really isn't "satisfied." The "ransom" is insufficient.

And we make of no effect the words of John 1:13: "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

 

First let me say I am glad you see the foreseen view that I posted for it is hard to understand without some study. We were all made aware of how hard it is to understand Paul by Apostle Peter.

2 Peter, chapter 3
15: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17: Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18: But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Because it is not the believing that "saves" it is "Grace", but God gives that Grace to those who believe or it would mean that "all" men would be saved by the Cross.
God did His part when he created man. He never willed that man to believe or not believe. He never willed that man to sin and He never willed that man to righteous. God did will His Son to die for sin, and those who believed that Jesus is the Son of God and died for sin, would be saved by His Grace. The problem is, when did God know this? He is without time, so He always sees man believe, before the foundation of the world, now and in the end. God sees all in a moment, so He knows who to "call" because He sees who believes.

 

I'm just curious Jarthur001, do you ever post anything here that doesn't deal with Calvinism, because you seem obsessed with it?

 

Choosing God as a result of the Holy Ghosts conviction is neither works nor is it an opportunity for glory. That is man made philosphy that cannot be backed up with scripture.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power F2 to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

He who has the power gets the credit!:thumbs:

 

Sorry, but you guys are ALL wrong!!

There are really 10 kinds of people:

1) Those who understand binary, and

0) Those who don't!!! :laugh: :laugh:

 

Welcome back James...
Now as far as the topic, and chosen etc.

I want to address Bobs idea of God choosing based on what He sees man doing.
First of all, that makes God a respector of person, which God isn't.
If God chooses only those who choose Him...
Anyway, I hear many say that God WANTS all men to be saved.
But not all do.
Then you say that God sees everything. And knows everything.

Let me ask you this? Why doesn't God change something if that is the case?
Bob, if you set out to do something, and you have knowledge that something won't happen the way you want, before it happens, woudln't you change something to get your desired outcome?

What you say when you say God wants all, but knows NOT all will come, then still does the same thing....seems a bit unwise does it not?

God is all wise. All powerful.
He knows the future because He Causes the future.