3 Point Calvinists time to speak up!

[BobRyan]

There is a thread where the question is asked "What is a 3 point Calvinist".

I am Arminian - so I am hoping that I am not the only one that will speak to that question.


My understanding is that 3 pointers (more like 2.5's?) believe --

Total Depravity
Unconditional Grace (of some kind)
Perseverance of the saints.

What say you?

Ever heard of one?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[TCGreek]

Are there really three-point Calvinists out there? Isn't it a misnomer to give them the Calvinistic label?

 

[BobRyan]

I don't have any problem with it - since it appears to be the most doctrinally correct form of Calvinism that I know of...

But -- I am Arminian

 

[TCGreek]

Ok, then the three-pointers would have to address this issue then, for I've just been disqualified.

 

[webdog]

All 5 points stand and fall together. A three point calvinist is a calvinist who has a good outside shot.

 

[TCGreek]

All 5 points stand and fall together. A three point calvinist is a calvinist who has a good outside shot.

Oh, my good brother, Webdog! What can I say, the 3-pointer has a better outside shot than the 5-pointer? But something doesn't add up.

 

[webdog]

Oh, my good brother, Webdog! What can I say, the 3-pointer has a better outside shot than the 5-pointer? But something doesn't add up.

My post was lame humor in reference to basketball (3 point shooter). There is no such thing as a 3 point calvint, as there is no such thing as a 0 point calvinist. If you are a calvinist, you hold to TULIP...5 points.

 

[TCGreek]

My post was lame humor in reference to basketball (3 point shooter). There is no such thing as a 3 point calvint, as there is no such thing as a 0 point calvinist. If you are a calvinist, you hold to TULIP...5 points.

Actually, the basketball reference was brewing in my mind, but didn't know if that was really what you were getting at. Next time, I try a Miller-time quick release!

 

[EdSutton]

My post was lame humor in reference to basketball (3 point shooter). There is no such thing as a 3 point calvint, as there is no such thing as a 0 point calvinist. If you are a calvinist, you hold to TULIP...5 points.

Personally, I sometimes refer to myself as a 0 point Calvinist. I am certainly not any Arminian, rejecting all the points there as they have been 'developed' by the Arminians, and I reject the wording of all five points of Calvinism, as worded, as well. But I believe in 'free grace', salvation by faith, the blood substitutionary atonement and resurrection of the God-man, the Lord Jesus Christ and 'eternal Security', for starters. And the other cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith, as well, in their entirety.

So what would you call me?

Hey, I got it! A No-Point Calvinist!

Ed

 

[BobRyan]

So Ed --

Total depravity?

Perseverance of the saints?

Limited Atonement?

Irresistable Grace?

...

What about Unconditional Election? What is that really in a 3 point (or is it 2.5 point) model?

And do you have anyone else on this board that also shares your views.


I knew quite a number of 3 point Calvinist - baptists at one time but not sure how many are on this board.

BTW - when you link OSAS with Calvinism -- I agree with you.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[ReformedBaptist]

All 5 points stand and fall together. A three point calvinist is a calvinist who has a good outside shot.

You are 100% correct in this estimation. :thumbs: A 3 point, 4 point, or as a pastor I knew, a 4.5 pointer is inconsistent.

 

[webdog]

Personally, I sometimes refer to myself as a 0 point Calvinist. I am certainly not any Arminian, rejecting all the points there as they have been 'developed' by the Arminians, and I reject the wording of all five points of Calvinism, as worded, as well. But I believe in 'free grace', salvation by faith, the blood substitutionary atonement and resurrection of the God-man, the Lord Jesus Christ and 'eternal Security', for starters. And the other cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith, as well, in their entirety.

So what would you call me?

Hey, I got it! A No-Point Calvinist!

Ed

Does that also make you a no point Mormon, a no point Jehovah Witness and a no point Hindu?

 

[drfuss]

drfuss: I have had problems with those three points being together. When not connected to irresistible grace, unconditional election must take on a new meaning. Unconditional election in this case must mean election of those who are presented the gospel and not the election of those to be saved.

I believe Augustine/Luther/Lutherans believe in unconditional election, but not in irresistible grace nor perseverance of the saints. I got that from a Lutheran on another forum. If there are some Lutherans on here, they can shed some light on this or correct me if I am wrong.
__________________

 

[Amy.G]

Does that also make you a no point Mormon, a no point Jehovah Witness and a no point Hindu?

Soooooo........what's yer point?


:laugh:

 

[BobRyan]

"No" Three pointers coming forward??

 

[drfuss]

"No" Three pointers coming forward??

drfuss: Still no three pointers?

Bob, I suspect that whoever said they were a three point Calvinists did so by changing the definition of unconditional election from the Classic Calvinist definition. The Classic Calvinists definition assumes irresistible grace or it doesn't make sense.

I have a friend who was a Classic Calvinist having graduated form Moody Bible Institute many years ago. Over the years, he changed his beliefs to believe only in the perseverence of the saints. Yet he claims to be a 5 point Calvinist. He has changed the definition of the first four points to agee with his present beliefs. However, he still calls himself a Calvinist. Why? I don't know, but I suspect that he has heard so much bad mouthing of the Arminians, in previous years, that he doesn't want to be called an Arminian.

I suspect that whoever claimed to be a three point Calvinist, did so by changing the definition of unconditional election.

I am waiting to hear the definition of unconditional election from someone who believes in total depravity, unconditional election, and perseverence of the saints, but not in irresistible grace.

 

[EdSutton]

And do you have anyone else on this board that also shares your views.

I don't have anyone else on this board, at all, in one sense.

As to who shares my views, I have no idea, especially as to most, if not all, details.

But I seldom seem to have very much of a problem finding several who do not share my views, on a lot of subjects. :tonofbricks: :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

 

[EdSutton]

Does that also make you a no point Mormon, a no point Jehovah Witness and a no point Hindu?

No! And that is definitely a "no-brainer"!
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"Alright!! Pipe down up there in the 'peanut gallery'!" :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

[BobRyan]

I don't have anyone else on this board, at all, in one sense.

As to who shares my views, I have no idea, especially as to most, if not all, details.

But I seldom seem to have very much of a problem finding several who do not share my views, on a lot of subjects. :tonofbricks: :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

So does that mean we are still in search of the illusive 3-pointer?

Does it mean that you are one but you know of no others on this board that are 3 pointers?

Or does it mean that Baptists that call themsevles 3-point Calvinists and those that call themselves Arminian but they also hold to OSAS - are in fact all holding to one and the same teaching?

in Christ,

Bob