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400 TOP RANKING THEOLOGY PROFESSIONALS AGREE

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Tim too, Oct 30, 2003.

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  1. Tim too

    Tim too New Member

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    400 top ranking theology professionals agree but does that make it right?

    For the scriptural basis of this post read 2 Chronicles 18:4-34.

    Biblically speaking, the majority of the time the majority of religious leaders (Prophets, Pharisees, Sadducees, etc.) were off base with God's message.

    It seems to me that this would make popular theological positions automatically suspect. I am suggesting that positions like God loves me no matter how I live or what I do, name it and God is obligated to give it to you, and the ever popular end times scenario sold at Wal-mart as well should be suspect.

    Do you agree?

    Why or why not?

    In the love of Christ,
    Tim
     
    #1 Tim too, Oct 30, 2003
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    God's love is inescapable.

    By the way, what did these 400 theologians agree on?
     
    #2 KenH, Oct 30, 2003
  3. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    KenH,

    God's love is not inescapable. To the contrary, the Lord said in Hosea,

    "All their wickedness is in Gilgal; for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of my house. I will love them no more."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #3 Mark Osgatharp, Oct 30, 2003
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Psalm 30:5 (ESV)
    For his anger is but for a moment,
    and his favor is for a lifetime.
    Weeping may tarry for the night,
    but joy comes with the morning.

    Love is not just something God does. Love is what God is. God is never described as hate. God is described as love.

    1 John 4:8 (ESV)
    Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

    I know from your posts that you seethe with hatred, Mark. [​IMG] May God have mercy on you.
     
    #4 KenH, Oct 31, 2003
  5. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    KenH,

    Why not refrain from the personal attacks and deal with the passage in which the Lord said,

    "I will love them no more."

    The passages you quote - and good ones they are - are about the enduring love of God for His children. They do not change the fact that God said He would withdraw His love from the wicked. Again,

    "I will love them no more."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #5 Mark Osgatharp, Oct 31, 2003
  6. Watchman

    Watchman New Member

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    Mark, Ken, IMHO, you are both right. Mark did not respond with personal opinion, but with scripture, and a very clear-cut one too. Not only is there this passage in Hosea, but many throughout the Bible, which shows God's righteous indignation.
    In the passage Mark gave, "I will love them no more", I also thought of "My spirit shall not always strive with man" in Genesis and, "For this cause, God gave them over..." in Romans 1. Sure, God is Love, but there is that other thread in the Bible that speaks of God's indignation and wrath that seems to say: Enough is Enough.
     
    #6 Watchman, Oct 31, 2003
  7. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    If 400 aggreed on something, the only thing I know for sure; they were not Baptists [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #7 Salty, Oct 31, 2003
  8. Taufgesinnter

    Taufgesinnter New Member

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    I second that motion: what did they agree on, these 400?
     
    #8 Taufgesinnter, Oct 31, 2003
  9. Tim too

    Tim too New Member

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    These 400 were not Baptist, since no three Baptist can completely agree. [​IMG]

    These were the 400 prophets of King Ahab's day in 2 Chronicles 18:4-34. All 400 agreed that he should go to war. God spoke through one prophet, Micaiah the son of Imla. Ahab chose to go with the 400 and as a result died just as Micaiah said.

    The point of this thread is that in the Bible the popular theologians were usually not speaking for God. My thought is that this would make popular theological positions automatically suspect and that we should scrutinize these even more carefully.

    Do you agree?

    In the love of Christ,
    Tim
     
    #9 Tim too, Oct 31, 2003
  10. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    I would disagree. Just because a position is held by a majority or a minority doesn't make something true or not. The majority of people in this world believe that the world is round - this doesn't automatically make it false. The majority of Baptist theologians believe that salvation is found in Christ and in Christ alone - this doesn't automatically make it false. I think that anything that goes against the Word of God makes it automatically suspect, not how many people believe it or not. That would seem to me to be a logical fallacy.
     
    #10 ScottEmerson, Oct 31, 2003
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes and that is what punishment in hell is about. However, God is love. God is not hate. God never acts in any way that is not out of love for all of His creation. He cannot do otherwise because love is what God is, not just simply an action He does. Man is flesh and bone and cannot be anything else. God is love and cannot be anything else.
     
    #11 KenH, Oct 31, 2003
  12. Tim too

    Tim too New Member

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    I didn't suggest that because a majority believes something it is false. I am suggesting that because a belief is popular it is automatically suspect and should be scrutinized more carefully.

    Knowing that we are heading for or are in a day when:

    For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
    2 Timothy 4:3 & 4 NIV

    It seems safe to me to logically assume that just because a majority believes something it is not necessarily right or from God.

    In the love of Christ,
    Tim
     
    #12 Tim too, Oct 31, 2003
  13. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    KenH,

    Do you think that when God consigns a creature, whether man or angel, to eternal torment that it is an expression of His love for them? The Bible says otherwise. The Bible says,

    "I will love them no more."

    It also says,

    "Thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

    It also says,

    "The wicked and him that loveth violence, his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup."

    This passage flatly asserts that God's punishment of the wicked is an expression of hate.

    Yes, "God is love." But "love" does not mean unqualified acceptance. Inherent in godly love is a hatred for all that is evil - including evil creatures. As it is also written in the Psalms,

    "Ye that love the Lord, hate evil."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #13 Mark Osgatharp, Oct 31, 2003
  14. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    So is salvation through Christ alone automatically suspect? I would say a resounding, "Of course not!"
     
    #14 ScottEmerson, Oct 31, 2003
  15. Tim too

    Tim too New Member

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    I agree that Christ is our only means of salvation and that theological fact is not suspect. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    You are changing this general statement about popular theology to a specific issue about salvation in and through Christ.

    What is your opinion on the plethora of popular theology that evangelicals blindly embrace because Dr. Soandso said it is true?

    In the love of Christ,
    Tim
     
    #15 Tim too, Oct 31, 2003
  16. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Doesn't this make your position on dispensationalism suspect since the majority of "Dr Soandso"s reject it?? I think this actually works against you. The popular theological position at seminaries and churches is a form of covenantalism. Using your criteria, that makes it suspect, which I agree with :D . But I don't think you want to apply your rubric this consistently.

    Having said that, I would no more listen to 400 top theology professionals than I would to the man on the moon. There are people who are trustworthy and there are people who are not. As we all know well, the repetition of error does not change its character as error. Truth is not to be judged by how popular it is or is not. There will come a day when the truth about Jesus Christ will be popular, because it will be the only belief. You will not want to apply your rubric then.

    I do agree to some extent that popularity among some crowds make something suspect. We just have to be careful in how much of a blanket application of that we make. We also have to be careful about the cross-section from which we draw our sample. AT the seminary I attended, the deity of Christ was a very popular viewpoint. To call it into question would have brought a quick invitation to study somewhere else, to form the population of some other institution. We cannot make a blanket statement about these things.
     
    #16 Pastor Larry, Oct 31, 2003
  17. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    I know of no such "popular theology" that is anti-Scriptural that is held by a majority of evangelicals. Woudl you care to be more specific? To what are you referring to?
     
    #17 ScottEmerson, Oct 31, 2003
  18. Tim too

    Tim too New Member

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    Pastor Larry,

    There are several other things that I blindly embraced because I was taught those things growing up. I was challenged by a professor to examine one of these views and scripturally it came up lacking. So I have since rejected it as well as some other things I blindly accepted that don't square with the Bible.

    I would've never even questioned what I believed if I had not been challenged and that is the problem with us today. The Christian media outlets do not put out anything but the popular view. All the big gun radio preachers preach almost the same thing. The majority of American Christians spend little or no time during the week in serious Bible study. So everything in popular theology is blindly accepted true or not.

    I believe that if you look at the Bible and history you see a dangerous trend, popular theology is usually not of God and is most often associated with money and power.

    In the love of Christ,
    Tim
     
    #18 Tim too, Oct 31, 2003
  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, as it is part of His bringing them to repentance.

    But since we shouldn't continue to hijack this thread, if you want to discuss this in a different thread, I will glad to do. [​IMG]
     
    #19 KenH, Oct 31, 2003
  20. Tim too

    Tim too New Member

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    What about the Rapture for a start?

    In the love of Christ,
    Tim
     
    #20 Tim too, Oct 31, 2003
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