$753,000,000

[Nevada]

Public documents show the federal government gave 753,000,000 of tax dollars to Catholic charities in 2011. (Journalist Sarah Posner discovered.)

That is three quarters of a BILLION dollars.

If tuition vouchers are enacted in more states, the Vatican's church in America will get more tax money; well over a billion dollars. It is not debatable that -every- election will see the Catholic Church struggling to keep the flow from the US Treasury coming. Why wouldn't they?

Is it coincidental that the chaplain of the House of Representatives was a Catholic priest for 11 years? And that when he stepped down in the Spring of 2011, House Speaker Boehner got him replaced with a Jesuit Priest? (Boehner and Nancy Pelosi are Catholics.)

We pay that Jesuit priest $170,000 to be a chaplain for the US House of Representatives, despite President James Madison having written that the taxpayer should not pay for a chaplain for the House.

I'm offended. Of course, my being offended might be called bigotry by some, but I see that accusation as manipulative. Am I not right to ask:

Isn't it as if the USA is nationalizing the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[Salty]

of that amount - was it sent directly to the RC church? or to the families for attendance? If sent directly - was in earmarked for specific children?

How much was sent to Baptist church schools, how much was sent to Protestant church schools, how much was sent to non-religious schools?

There is a lot of problems with our public schools - thus I am not opposed to tuition vouchers.

As far as a Chaplain - should the House and Senate also have a Protestant chaplain.

Do you think the military should get rid of chaplains?

Do you think James Madison would have approved of having a church service in the Capitol?

Lots to consider here.

 

[Zenas]

It is numbers like this that is a major reason the USA is having serious financial problems today. I agree especially that there is no reason we should pay a Jesuit priest $170,000 to be chaplain of the House of Representatives. Since Jesuits take a vow of poverty, this means all the money is going to the order.

However, there are almost no charities that operate without money from the government at some level. According to your profile you are from Kentucky and so you may be familiar with Sunrise Children's Services (f/k/a Kenucky Baptist Homes for Children). In 2010, the last year for which numbers are available, Sunrise took in $26.6 million from all sources. Of that amount, $17.7 million (or more than 2/3) came from the state of Kentucky. Without state funding, Sunrise would quickly shut down. I don't think that would be a good thing. I beleive our children are better off in a Christian environment than they would be in a state run home.

Catholic Charities and similar organizations do take a lot of federal money, and I'm sure a lot of money from all 50 states as well. But Catholic Charities has a bigger operation than any other church related charity in the nation. It's bigger than most of them combined. So it's no wonder the numbers are staggering.

 

[billwald]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaplain_of_the_United_States_Senate

Old list so this guy would be the second Catholic out of 63? Who is being discriminated against?

Should we only pay presidents and members of Congress who need the money?

 

[Zenas]

Should we only pay presidents and members of Congress who need the money?

Maybe a better question would be do we need a chaplain of the House and the Senate at all? The MC's who want sprirtual direction have their own pastors to consult.

 

[billwald]

Same reason every pro baseball game must start with poorly sung rendition of the Star Spangled Banner. I suspect half the population doesn't know what "spangled" means.

 

[Nevada]

Obviously, prayers in the US Capitol have not made politicians less amoral.

James Madison wrote that there were plenty of churches in DC reps could go to; that representatives could use their own money for a chaplain, rather than taxpayer dollars; and that having a taxpayer funded one would lead to some denominations gaining favor over others.

That's what the man known as "The Father of the Constitution" wrote and believed.

On another aspect of this topic, yes, I suspected Protestants had made sure Catholic priests were not chosen to be House chaplains, for as long as they could. Obviously, now that demographics in America have changed, Catholicism can get their guys in there, and are proving as discriminatory as the Protestants who came before them.

Wait 75 years to see Hindus and Muslims getting their revenge, by locking up the position for 11 years +. The taxpayer provided Mullah of the House of Representatives!

As for vouchers: likely, all agree public schools are rife with problems. But, at least they are accountable. If religious sects and cults are running schools here and there, society will never be able to police it all.

Why did early America go to a system of public schools if that system did not reflect democratic values best?

Heck, prior to WWII, the Pope issued a statement that fascism best reflected the hierarchical nature of human society. pfft! I say values of the leadership of that church reflect Old World ways, not the dreams of a revolutionary republic founded largely by Protestants.

Our great grandfathers would say we are watching the growth of Papal power here in the USA. They'd marvel that Protestants are accomplices.

 

[targus]

Chief Administrative Officer
Clerk of the House
Sergeant at Arms
Leggislative Counsel
Law Revision Counsel
Parliamentarian
Inspector General
Director Interparliamentary Affairs
Director Emergency Planning, Preparedness, and Operations
General Counsel to House
Chaplian

All of the above Congressional positions are paid the same as all are at the same Federal pay grade level.

I suspect that your real complaint is with anything Catholic.

 

[Nevada]

Chief Administrative Officer
Clerk of the House
Sergeant at Arms
Leggislative Counsel
Law Revision Counsel
Parliamentarian
Inspector General
Director Interparliamentary Affairs
Director Emergency Planning, Preparedness, and Operations
General Counsel to House
Chaplian

All of the above Congressional positions are paid the same as all are at the same Federal pay grade level.

I suspect that your real complaint is with anything Catholic.

In his letter, in which he objected to a taxpayer paid chaplain, Madison said he wondered if a Catholic could get the position. He worried the fighting among Christian denominations would prevent it. His answer wasn't to mandate one, but to object to any paid chaplain. So, Targus, your words are ironic.

Ah, any criticism of the Israeli Lobby is countered by that lobby, and its constituency, with charges of Antisemitism. Likewise, any criticism of Roman Catholicism is countered with charges of anti-Catholicism.

Smoke.
Mirrors.

I, like James Madison, think . . well, you already know! So, why accuse me of anti-Catholicism?

Picture this scenario: America in 2050. ALL religiously operated elementary and high schools in America are operated with tax dollars. Catholic, cult, Mormon, Islamic, Hindu, Scientology. A vote is about to come up in The House, which might limit the flow from the Treasury, or strike cult schools off the list of eligible recipients of tax dollars. As legislators enter the Chamber, a voice is heard:

Oh, Representative, may I have a word with you?

It is spoken by the House Chaplain.

 

[billwald]

>ALL religiously operated elementary and high schools in America are operated with tax dollars. Catholic, cult, Mormon, Islamic, Hindu, Scientology.

Say all those schools got an equal amount per student. The SAT would become one way to judge the academic merit of these religions.

 

[Nevada]

>ALL religiously operated elementary and high schools in America are operated with tax dollars. Catholic, cult, Mormon, Islamic, Hindu, Scientology.

Say all those schools got an equal amount per student. The SAT would become one way to judge the academic merit of these religions.

I doubt it. Today, Roman Catholic schools graduate kids with somewhat higher SAT scores, I suspect, merely because they do not have to educate the poorest. They can expel kids, whereas public schools are stuck with them.

If vouchers happen, the wealthy will just use their own money and add it to the amount of the voucher, to insure their kids get an education superior to the blue collar family across the tracks.

Equality of opportunity depends on a system of public education. So does religious freedom.