99.9% of all Catholics Going to Hell

Well Dr. Bob, If 99.9% is not the right number what would you say is the right percentage of Catholics that are not going to heaven?

Of course, we all know it will be an educated guess, because one doesn't get to use the title Dr. unless one is educated.

 

I'm curious as to the Catholic view of the fate of those who know about the Catholic church and deny that it is Christian and/or the one true church. Do they have much of a chance of escaping hell?
Gina

 

I tend to agree with Dr. Bob's assessment. The 99% figure is probably accurate enough, and that has nothing to do with judging hearts, but rather theology and religious systems, as he said. I very rarely accept a person's testimony at face value--at least not right away. There has been plenty of examples of that on this forum. But for sake of a non-speific one, if a Mormon were to tell me that he was saved, I would not believe him. The reason? They serve a different Jesus than I do--one born out of a union between a god and a godess from a different planet, and a Jesus that is a created being. That Jesus can't save anyone.

If you are involved in a religious system which involves works as part of your salvation, then how can you be saved, if the Bible teaches that it is all through grace, by faith?
Works cannot save.

There are certain elements to one's belief system which determine whether or not he may be saved, or even have the possibility of being saved, unless he is willing to give up those beliefs.
DHK

 

DK:

When my Mormon son in law and I sit at a dinner table and say "Grace",
I doubt very much that his mind is on a being from another planet . We
pray to God...the creator of Heaven and Earth.

It will be interesting to get to know the insights of his Mormon mother who is
quite active. So far; so good. She called me a "Bad Boy" for beating up on Catholics.
She's displaying a true spirit of love I'd say. Could she possibly have the Holy
Spirit in her?.......sure she could. The spirit is poured out upon each who believe that
Jesus rose from the dead. My Mormon sister believe that too.

Imagine my 2 yr old grandson who also sits at that table with his little hands
folded and watching his Mormon dad and unchurched Grandpa pray. He isn't
being influenced into believing in a god from a different planet that was a creation
of a goddess.....he's just basically being taught to acknowledge God.

 

And Singer, the error with what you posted lies within scripture: Even the devils believe, and tremble.

Not saying your son-in-law or his son are devils, but that it's one thing to acknowledge God...it's another to really know who He is.

 

I will attempt an answer here.

Do you have a copy of THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?

I quote from that publication:

838. "'The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.'[LG 15.] Those 'who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.'[UR 3.] With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound 'that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist.'[Paul VI, Discourse, December 14, 1975; cf. UR 13-18.]"

This presumes a sublime innocence on the the part of those who dismiss the Catholic faith out of ignorance or proper understanding.

It also demonstrates that even the Authoritive Church does not know the heart of the individual person, even to non-Christians in fact. Only God can judge, or, "judge not least ye be judged." (from memory)

Hope that helps!

Hi to Dr.Bob Griffin! It's been a coons age!

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


- Anima Christi -

Soul of Christ, sanctify me.
Body of Christ, save me.
Blood of Christ, inebriate me.
Water from the side of Christ, wash me.
Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
O good Jesus, hear me;
Within Thy wounds hide me and permit
me not to be separated from Thee.
From the Wicked Foe defend me.
And bid me to come to Thee,
That with Thy Saints I may praise Thee,
For ever and ever. Amen.

 

I would like to add to Bills post.

I do not believe that the Catholic Church is the "one true Church" and disagree with many of its teachings. However, Catholic teaching does not state that I'm going to hell because of that.

However, if I believed that the Catholic Church was the one true Church, and rejected it, I would in effect be rejecting Christ because of the Churches teachings on Christ being the only way to heaven. And if I reject Jesus Christ, I can't make it to heaven.

That's my understanding, feel free to correct me if I'm off on that Bill.

 

So your saying the babies, infants or little kids are not going to heaven if they die since they cannot not make a "personal decision?"

 

Don....it makes me wonder who has the right to quote that verse about devils
believing. Everyone seems to use it against others to prove that someone has
the wrong kind of faith. Does anyone really know what it means? How would one
suggest to ''bring them up in the ways of the Lord" (children) without being guilty
of "the devils believe and tremble" syndrome.

Everyone is at a different level of belief at some stage. I've seen people rather
nod in agreement when presented with the gospel story, others just smile or make
a negative facial expression....or a joke out of it. Still others will say "Amen Brother"
which tells me that they expressly believe already. But it's something to work with and
it doesn't seem they should be put in the catagory of "the devils believe" syndrome.

Most who point that verse out seem to be defending their own denomination or their
own set of beliefs.

As for my grandson, he does not have the ability at 2 yrs old to comprehend the
difference between God the creator and some imaginary god of a false gospel.

When he hears "God", he will learn that we are referring to our creator. My
Mormon son in law (his father) believes in God the creator as you and I do.

The verse:
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also
believe, and tremble.

Possibly that verse does not mean what people make of it.
It says we ''do well'' to believe in one God.
But, we do not fear and tremble because of our belief whereas the devils do.
Maybe that's all it means. It is used in an accusatory way. It may not be referring
to a separation in someone's "How To" theory of what to believe. My grandson
should grow to believe as his dad and I do.....in one God.

A bible commentary had this to say concerning the verse:

c. The fallacy of faith without works is demonstrated by the
demons, who have a "dead" faith in God (an acknowledgment of
His existence and attributes) themselves - but is a source of fear
instead of salvation for them

The context of the verse came out of a discussion about dead faith and
not as a tool to use in accusing others of having a faith in God that is wrong.

 

Greetings DHK, its been awhile....

But such an astonishing statement has everything to do with judging hearts. Going by the "faith alone" theory that you adhere to, it is the heart that God, and only God, is able to judge(Hebrews 4:12). Not you or I and not even Dr. Bob. God is the only True Judge to see if one has true faith or has just been giving "lip service" (Matthew 7:21-23).
I think "true" believers in Jesus Christ need to stick to spreading His word and following The Great Commission and leave the decision on who is going to hell up to the only Just Judge, Jesus Christ.

God Bless....

 

I am going to hell??

I thought hell was only for those who don't believe in the name of the Jesus Christ the Lord.

"Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." John 3:18

Hmm, I see your point though, maybe I don't really believe in Jesus Christ. I mean you guys know my heart a lot better than I do and surely much better than God.

 

I agree it seems unfair, but the rules of the board are such that non-Baptists are not allowed to post in certain forums. I don't think it's so much about censorship (after all, you ARE allowed recourse in THIS forum).

As for his statements about 99.9%, I find that totally appalling, for several reasons (most of which you have already been discussing). Although his view is all too common in Baptist circles, you will find Baptists that strongly disagree with that statement. Dr. Bob will be very surprised when he gets to heaven....

 

I know alot of Baptists who don't agree with baptism at all. Its just not for them. But they have faith in Jesus Christ, so they don't have to be baptized, because they are going to heaven anyway.

 

Dr. Bob said,

What knowledge do you have that such a minute number of Catholics actually made it to heaven? Do you have baptist bean counters checking the gates of Heaven to see how many Catholics are admitted?

What experience do you possess that allows you to unequivocably say that a meer 1 tenth of one percent of all catholics who have died have actually been seen running around heaven?

The point is you have neither of these things you say you have that leads you to conclude as you have. You are basing what you say on heresay gossip from others who are as closeminded as you yourself are. You cannot know the heart of man, you cannot know or measure the faith of another. You must rely on testamony and because the Catholics do not "learn" to give their testamony in the same manner that Baptists "learn" to give their testamony you conclude that Catholics are not saved in either the same manner or the same relative numbers that baptists are saved. What a shameful and dispicable position you put yourself in.

No, I am not a catholic supporter, but for cryin' out loud Bob, you had better open you holier-than-thou eyes and see that the baptists do not have a corner on God's salvation either. There are 6 1/2 Billion people on the earth, and being quite generous, only 5 hundred million Baptists. You do the math. You will find the ratio pretty slim. We all have a lot of work to do to harvest the souls that need to be harvested.