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A Command To Sobriety!

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by standingfirminChrist, Nov 13, 2006.

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  1. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

    Proverbs 23:29-35 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

    Many have stated that there is no scriptural support for total abstinence, yet if one diligent studies the Word, one will find that the Lord does demand total abstinence in the life of the Believer in four verses in the New Testament. Let me first share those four verses:
    Quote:

    1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    ​

    Quote:
    1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
    ​

    Quote:
    1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
    ​

    Quote:
    1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
    ​


    Now, one may say that in none of the verses posted above is there a command to abstain from alcohol, but there certainly is. One has to study the Word as Paul told Timothy
    Quote:

    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    ​


    If one is attentive in one's studies, one will see that the Greek word for 'sober' is the word 'nepho', pronounced 'nay-foe'. Here is the definition of that word 'nepho':
    Quote:
    nepho nay'-fo

    of uncertain affinity: to abstain from wine (keep sober), i.e. (figuratively) be discreet:--be sober, watch.
    ​


    Now, one might say 'Oh, but it might mean be discreet, or to watch'. But if sober cannot mean 'total abstinence in at least one of those four verses, why would the definition be included in the list?

    If one looks at a modern word in our dictionaries, it should erase any belief that it could mean anything other than abstaining from alcohol. Consider this:
    Quote:
    nephalism

    \Neph"a*lism\, n. [Gr. ? soberness, fr. ? sober, ? to drink no wine: cf. F. n['e]phalisme.] Total abstinence from spirituous liquor.
    Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
    ​


    Total abstinence! Even the modern dictionaries use a form of the word nepho which can mean nothing but total abstinence from alcoholic beverage!

    In the Word of God Peter commands the reader to ‘Be sober! Be vigilant! Webster’s 1828 Dictionary defines ‘vigilant’ in this manner:


    One cannot be vigilant, watching to avoid danger, without abstaining from alcoholic beverages. When one drinks just one drink of alcoholic beverage, that one is intoxicated to a degree. It may not be noticeable to the one imbibing right away, but that is how deceiving alcohol is.



    Drunkenness does not just hit a person all at once. From the very first swallow, the alcohol begins to have an effect on the human body.


    Solomon warned in Proverbs 31:
    Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
     
    #1 standingfirminChrist, Nov 13, 2006
  2. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    ***Insult removed*** Proverbs 31:6-7 0-- Give strong drink to him who is perrishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter. Let him drink and forget his poverty And remember his trouble no more.
     
    #2 Alcott, Nov 13, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2006
  3. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Prayer for November 13, 2006. "Please Lord, no more alcohol related threads."
     
    #3 saturneptune, Nov 13, 2006
  4. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes <img src=/jrhodes.jpg>

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    I thought this issue had been beaten to death and taken off the air... like all those political ads. Oh well... :laugh:
     
    #4 Joshua Rhodes, Nov 13, 2006
  5. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    let me take a nip from my flask this brisk November morn as I think I replying to this thread...
     
    #5 preachinjesus, Nov 13, 2006
  6. mcdirector

    mcdirector Active Member

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    Amen ~~~~~~~~~
     
    #6 mcdirector, Nov 13, 2006
  7. dan e.

    dan e. New Member

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    Wow standingfirm....it really bothers you that people don't agree with you. Let's talk about something else.
     
    #7 dan e., Nov 13, 2006
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    While I don't advocate drunkeness, here is another command from God...

    Deu 14:22 "You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year.
    Deu 14:23 And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.
    Deu 14:24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there,
    Deu 14:25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses
    Deu 14:26 and spend the money for whatever you desire--oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.
     
    #8 webdog, Nov 13, 2006
  9. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    WEBDOG!!!!!!:tonofbricks:

    You just couldn't resist?
    If we don't debate, the threads will go away!!:laugh:
     
    #9 tinytim, Nov 13, 2006
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    No debate, just pointing out another "command" :D
     
    #10 webdog, Nov 13, 2006
  11. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    As I've said before:

    Same song, second verse
    A little bit louder, a little bit worse........
     
    #11 annsni, Nov 13, 2006
  12. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    I always try and post an unrelated humorous comment on alcohol threads...and I saw no reason to stop that practice.

    Carry on.
     
    #12 rbell, Nov 13, 2006
  13. Not_hard_to_find

    Not_hard_to_find Member
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    Not necessarily. If a man has only one temptation, he must continually fight it.
     
    #13 Not_hard_to_find, Nov 13, 2006
  14. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name New Member

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    Great post, sfiC!

    Since God's Word does not contradict itself, and the clear command to abstain is given in both the Old and New Testaments, then the wine and strong drink mentioned here in Deuteronomy 14:26 has to be unfermented wine.

    I notice it is only the ones who ignore the command to be sober and advocate consumption of alcohol who are posting. And all they are posting is insults and ridicule... very unbecoming of people who say they believe the Word of God to be Truth.
     
    #14 His Blood Spoke My Name, Nov 13, 2006
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ...and the strong drink was lemonade? It doesn't contradict, allright, that is why your view is flawed.
    You have got to be kidding. I only see you post on these discussions, and refer to those who do not agree with your personal convictions as either not saved or carnal. Please, give it up.
     
    #15 webdog, Nov 13, 2006
  16. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name New Member

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    webdog,

    Your quarrel is not with me, nor is it with sfiC. We only post that which is revealed in the Word of God. Careful study will reveal the truth to those who will see it.

    I pray many who read the opening post will read their Bible, and study, and realize that alcohol is forbidden in the life of a Christian.

    I know many mock and scoff. I realize why they do such. It is because even though the Words are there, their eyes and hearts are blinded to it. And until the Holy Spirit reveals it to them, they will continue to mock, scoff, and disobey God's Word.

    From the many threads that have been posted on the subject of abstinence, and the many replies, it is clear people have their minds made up. But, are we to seek to please ourselves? obey the lusts of the flesh? or are we to obey God?
     
    #16 His Blood Spoke My Name, Nov 13, 2006
  17. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Yes.

    This is a false assumption.

    SFiC’s argument is derived from ignoring the figurative meaning of the word, “sober”, and the specialized English use of a transliterated Greek word.

    And false assumptions lead to false conclusions.

    Did you even think about what you wrote before you posted that response?

    If you believe that “wine and strong drink” is really “unfermented wine”(sic) or grape juice, then you have twisted up other scripture:

    1 Samuel 1:13-15

    Original
    Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken. And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee. And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.

    HBSMN (His Blood Spoke My Name) Standard Version
    Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken. And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee. And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have [not] drunk [grape juice], but have poured out my soul before the LORD.

    Proverbs 20:1

    Original
    Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

    HBSMN Standard Version
    [Grape juice] is a mocker, [grape juice] is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

    Proverbs 31:4

    Original
    It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink

    HBSMN Standard Version
    It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink [grape juice]; nor for princes [grape juice]

    No, you post what you believe is revealed in the word of God. I, and many others, are convinced that you are wrong in your interpretation.

    Yes, but you also have to be open to learning something new and considering all sides.

    I pray that they do not, because the opening post presents a false view.

    You really need to get a bit of humility here... Until you humble yourself and have some humility regarding your ability to interpret scripture, you will be doomed to commit grave errors that will damage your faith and the faith of others.

    Yes.

    Nope. That's why we need to consider whether or not we are wrong in our opinions, and have a bit of humility regarding our pet interpretation of the scripture.

    Nope. And that includes the lust of winning an argument?

    We are to obey God, and the whole counsel of His word revealed to us. And we must also expose error.
     
    #17 Baptist Believer, Nov 13, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2006
  18. ShagNappy

    ShagNappy Member

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    And, yet again, you find yourself completely and totally wrong. The people posting here are the ones who continually use Scripture to expose the hypocrisy and lunacy that people such as yourself and SFIC post here. 2 fine examples...

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=34837
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=34976

    The only real question is, why do you make such a determined effort to continue losing any remaining credibility you might have?
     
    #18 ShagNappy, Nov 13, 2006
  19. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Numbers
    6:1
    Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
    6:2
    "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'When either a man or woman consecrates an offering to take the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the Lord,
    6:3
    he shall separate himself from wine and similar drink; he shall drink neither vinegar made from wine nor vinegar made from similar drink; neither shall he drink any grape juice, nor eat fresh grapes or raisins.
    6:4
    All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, from seed to skin.

    Should we give all grape products up?
     
    #19 Amy.G, Nov 13, 2006
  20. dan e.

    dan e. New Member

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    :BangHead: new topic please

    we all know standingfirm and others thinks nepho means no alcohol and others think it doesn't. please don't hate those who think it doesn't, i don't hate you who think it does. i hope you aren't as harsh on caffeine consumers because i love coffee and i love pepsi. :saint:
     
    #20 dan e., Nov 13, 2006
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