a different creation question

[nodak]

I don't want to hijack the current debates on creation, but do have a question:

I run into many people that hold to a literal 24/6 creation, but do not date set. They believe the earth may indeed be billions of years old and still accept the Genesis account literally.

Your take on this thought?

 

[annsni]

I don't think we can necessarily know down to the hour, day or exact year the earth was created but I don't think, giving the Biblical history, that we can say that the earth is billions of years old.

 

[glfredrick]

No dates given in the Bible and attempts to set dates based on recorded history may fall short of being accurate because we cannot know that every generation, or even the lengths of time of certain generations are interpreted correctly.

Additionally, (and I do not subscribe to a "gap theory" we can't really know how long God took for Genesis 1:1 to come about. No indication of time there. (FWIW, the "gap theory" presupposes a long period between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2.)

That the earth is likely "young" and not "old" is a given considering Biblical evidence, but there are issues that factor in from observation of the general revelation (the cosmos) that cause many to believe that our cosmos is much older than is typically assumed by Christian believers.

I'm not sure the age of the earth/cosmos is a point where we should be utterly dogmatic. Whether God took 6000 years, 10,000 years, a million years, or billions and billions of years (or made it appear that is what happened) we simply don't know because we are not given dates, and so we praise God as the God of creation, we praise God as the God who told us that He created the earth and all its contents in 6 days, and after that, we wait to ask Him in eternity.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

The gap theory (mentioned above) does take into account a literal 6 day, 24 hour creation -- but since there is a gap between verses (specifically 1 and 2 of chapter 1), the earth can indeed be millions or billions of years old.

The day/age theory -- meaning six days, but not specifically 24 hours -- also sets the stage (so to speak) for an older earth.

 

[Alive in Christ]

I believe in a young earth. Anywhere from 6 to 10 thousand years.

I believe that because I dont believe in myths and fairy tales like the secular Carl Sagan types do, and because we have the Creator Himself making the case for 6-10,000 year young earth.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't want to hijack the current debates on creation, but do have a question:

I run into many people that hold to a literal 24/6 creation, but do not date set. They believe the earth may indeed be billions of years old and still accept the Genesis account literally.

Your take on this thought?

They aren't solving anything. Evolutionists argue that complex life evolved from simpler less complex life forms millions of years older than the complex life.

Having Elephants, lions and humans around for a billion years would not fit the evolutionist story any better than the 6000 year old earth model.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[RevGKG]

My position is I do not hold to the gap theory and do hold to the literal 24 hour 6 day creation and a young earth.

With that said here are a couple of thoughts.

1. If God wanted us to know the exact time of creation, He would have revealed that to us. I wonder if that is something that people would end up worshipping rather than worshipping the creator. (I personally feel this is the primary reason we do not have the ark Noah build, the Ark of the Covenant, etc.)
   
2. God exists outside the confines of time and space. Time was created as the framework for us to live within. So in regards to the time it took for the world to be created is not a consideration for Him. Isn’t God big enough that He could have created the world in six days? How about one day? Even if the creation was over a period of thousand/millions of years God is great enough He alone created the heavens and the earth.

We serve an almighty God and should stand in awe that He spoke the creation into existence. :godisgood:

 

[nodak]

RevGKG--your post is well reasoned. I think the only point I am hearing some folks disagree with you is embracing a young earth. They don't deny it could be--just don't believe there is ample proof it is. They take Genesis literally, but don't set a date.

 

[freeatlast]

My position is I do not hold to the gap theory and do hold to the literal 24 hour 6 day creation and a young earth.

With that said here are a couple of thoughts.

1. If God wanted us to know the exact time of creation, He would have revealed that to us. I wonder if that is something that people would end up worshipping rather than worshipping the creator. (I personally feel this is the primary reason we do not have the ark Noah build, the Ark of the Covenant, etc.)
   
2. God exists outside the confines of time and space. Time was created as the framework for us to live within. So in regards to the time it took for the world to be created is not a consideration for Him. Isn’t God big enough that He could have created the world in six days? How about one day? Even if the creation was over a period of thousand/millions of years God is great enough He alone created the heavens and the earth.

We serve an almighty God and should stand in awe that He spoke the creation into existence. :godisgood:

I think that the same logic that applies to other parts of the scripture should apply to the Gen. account.
Just to brush off the importance of the young earth teaching opens the door to discredit many other teachings in scripture when we do not have exact dates and times and in the end causing some to hold that the bible cannot be trusted or to come up with off the wall explanations that discredit other parts of the bible.
In reading the word of God and understanding when the creation took place it is clear that it was not millions of years ago. Yes we are clearly missing some generations, but claiming gaps of millions or billions is not acceptable based on the order of the creation and its intent to show that each day was equal in time to the day before.

Whether or not it was God's intent to hide the actual time period i do not know, However I am confident that he did not intend us to take what should be reasonable biblical revelation and confuse it with theories that are simply so far from what IS given that it makes those theories mocking to His account.

 

[RevGKG]

I think that the same logic that applies to other parts of the scripture should apply to the Gen. account.
Just to brush off the importance of the young earth teaching opens the door to discredit many other teachings in scripture when we do not have exact dates and times and in the end causing some to hold that the bible cannot be trusted or to come up with off the wall explanations that discredit other parts of the bible.
In reading the word of God and understanding when the creation took place it is clear that it was not millions of years ago. Yes we are clearly missing some generations, but claiming gaps of millions or billions is not acceptable based on the order of the creation and its intent to show that each day was equal in time to the day before.

Whether or not it was God's intent to hide the actual time period i do not know, However I am confident that he did not intend us to take what should be reasonable biblical revelation and confuse it with theories that are simply so far from what IS given that it makes those theories mocking to His account.

Agreed. I feel that a proper understanding of the first 11 chapters of Genesis does affect how we see the rest of the Bible. If we begin doubting God early on, where do we stop?

 

[glfredrick]

Agreed. I feel that a proper understanding of the first 11 chapters of Genesis does affect how we see the rest of the Bible. If we begin doubting God early on, where do we stop?

Well said... I agree.

More than that, Jesus indicated that He believed the Genesis account. He should know. He was there. :thumbs:

 

[RevGKG]

He believed the Genesis account. He should know. He was there. :thumbs:

AMEN!!! :godisgood:

 

[just-want-peace]

As someone noted on another thread, it all boils down to whether you believe God or not.

As noted, if you question what He says initially, where do you start believing Him literally??

Or do you find yourself questioning anything that steps on YOUR toes?

 

[percho]

As someone noted on another thread, it all boils down to whether you believe God or not.

As noted, if you question what He says initially, where do you start believing Him literally??

Or do you find yourself questioning anything that steps on YOUR toes?

What did he say initially?

Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
-------2 And the earth was without form, (תהו tohuw) and void (בהו bohuw)

Now in Isa. 45:18 God says he created it not in vain, (without form, tohuw) In Jer. 4:23 God said this: I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light.

Now if he did not create it without form, vain then it must have become that way. When?

 

[Watermaker]

The gap theory (mentioned above) does take into account a literal 6 day, 24 hour creation -- but since there is a gap between verses (specifically 1 and 2 of chapter 1), the earth can indeed be millions or billions of years old.

The day/age theory -- meaning six days, but not specifically 24 hours -- also sets the stage (so to speak) for an older earth.

I don't believe either of these theories to be correct, simply due to the fact that they both have death before sin. Rom 5:12 is quite clear that death came through sin, and there was no sin until Adam was in the picture.

The "gap theory" supposes an undetermined amount of time between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 during which the earth was populated and destroyed or something like that. Death before Adam's sin.

The "day/age theory" presents each creation day as an undetermined amount of time, usually at least a thousand years or so. The problem is that plants were created before the sun. Plants need sunlight to live. Now, if we're dealing with 24 hour periods, the plants will be just fine. However, if plants were created a thousand years before the sun, they would die. Death before Adam's sin again.

And please spare me the "God could do things any way He wanted to" garbage. God DID do things the way He wanted to, and He inspired a book to tell us how it happened. In that book He made it pretty clear to anyone with one eye and half sense that the Creation took six 24 hour days.

 

[percho]

I don't believe either of these theories to be correct, simply due to the fact that they both have death before sin. Rom 5:12 is quite clear that death came through sin, and there was no sin until Adam was in the picture.

The "gap theory" supposes an undetermined amount of time between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 during which the earth was populated and destroyed or something like that. Death before Adam's sin.

The "day/age theory" presents each creation day as an undetermined amount of time, usually at least a thousand years or so. The problem is that plants were created before the sun. Plants need sunlight to live. Now, if we're dealing with 24 hour periods, the plants will be just fine. However, if plants were created a thousand years before the sun, they would die. Death before Adam's sin again.

And please spare me the "God could do things any way He wanted to" garbage. God DID do things the way He wanted to, and He inspired a book to tell us how it happened. In that book He made it pretty clear to anyone with one eye and half sense that the Creation took six 24 hour days.

Whose death is being talked about in Romans 5:12 all men, cats, rats, trees?
Adam strolling in the garden talking with God and steps on a bug sunning on a rock early on the day he was created?

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 8 says that at the fall of mankind - sin entered and Creation itself was "subjected to slavery to corruption" and decay.

Prior to the fall of man - there was the tree of life.

in Christ,

Bob