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Featured A Fact Sheet on the Greek NT

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    We had a great discussion on Monday in Greek 102 about textual criticism. Right now the students are taking a vocab test, but at the beginning of the next hour I'm going to continue the discussion on textual criticism to get them a little educated. So, I have put together what I am calling a fact sheet for this purpose. I did check some sources, but most of it is just from my own memory.

    I'm going to go through it here point by point. Imagine yourself to be a first year Greek student, and either ask about specific points or for clarification. If you are conversant with textual criticism, please feel free to correct me, and we'll go from there. I can use the corrections and clarifications when I do it again next year. So, here we go.

    A Fact Sheet on the Greek New Testament
    1. Textual criticism is the scholarly task of examining manuscripts (mss), handwritten copies of an ancient document, to determine the form of the original manuscript (ms). In the case of the Greek New Testament (NT), such textual criticism has been done ever since a scholar named Desiderius Erasmus did so in the 16th century. We have over 6,000 mss of the Greek NT, showing God’s wonderful preservation of the text, but making the task difficult.
     
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  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Think I’d leave out the phrase, “such textual criticism has been done ever since...”, textual criticism of a form has been around a lot longer than Erasmus.
    Origen compared manuscripts and complained about variations amid the texts he read, suggesting the correct reading.
    Erasmus can be credited with producing the first full printed mass produced Greek NT text based upon multiple manuscripts.

    Rob
     
  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Good point. Thanks.
     
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    I would also say the task is difficult *at points* but for well over 90% of the Greek NT and nearer to 95%, scholars of all different stripes tend to agree on the basic text (even the KJVO people would align on that much).
     
  5. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Would it not be more correct to say that Erasmus can be credited with producing the first full published mass produced Greek NT text based upon multiple manuscripts?

    Cardinal Ximines de Cisneros' Complutensian Polyglot's Greek New Testament was actually printed before Erasmus' but was not published (because the pope had given the license to Erasmus) until later.
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Good points. I'll change this for next year.
     
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Here is my revised #1:

    1. Textual criticism is the scholarly task of examining manuscripts (mss), handwritten copies of an ancient document, to determine the form of the original manuscript (ms). In the case of the Greek New Testament (NT), the modern efforts at textual criticism began with a scholar named Desiderius Erasmus in the 16th century. We have over 6,000 mss of the Greek NT, which are in complete agreement almost 90% of the time, showing God’s wonderful preservation of the text. This makes the task difficult at points, but scholars from various points of view agree on the basic text.
     
  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the input, but see my #2 below, in which I state that Erasmus produced the first printed Greek NT.
     
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Here is my #2:L

    2. Erasmus (1466-1536) was a humanist scholar from the Netherlands, ordained as a Catholic priest. (Thus, we would not hire him to teach here, though to be fair, he did have a positive influence on the Reformation while remaining a Catholic.) He did Christianity a great service when he edited the very first printed Greek NT from just eight mss of the Greek NT, with the oldest one being from about AD 1,000. It was first printed in 1516. At that time, it was the only available printed Greek NT. Eventually five editions were published.
     
  10. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    You might consider expounding on or removing the word "humanist". It no longer means what it did in the day of Erasmus.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I've heard that before, but please fill me in. What's the difference?
     
  12. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Today's humanism denounces Erasmus' "Christian humanism" calling it incompatible and inconsistent....or something like that. Today's humanism is non-theistic and aligned with secularism. To call Erasmus a humanist, some may take it that he is atheistic.

    Humanism today is also about man being the sole source of truth and revelation. It denies the supernatural.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
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  13. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    At the risk of being entirely wrong and perhaps ridiculous, let me offer a few thoughts.

    Christian Humanism was the expression of the Renaissance in Northern Europe. Whereas in Italy it was primarily an aesthetic movement, in Northern Europe it was primarily intellectual, finding expression in scholars like Erasmus and Thomas More (whose humanism, alas, foundered on the obscurantism of the Roman church when push came to shove).

    Christian Humanists believed, contra Augustine and, to a lesser extent, Aquinas, that the works of man were not entirely reprobate; man, though fallen, was created in the image of God and retained a spark of divine influence. Thus the Greeks and the Romans, though pagan, showed the glory of God through the knowledge that God had given them even if they did not acknowledge Him.

    The fall of Constantinople in 1453 sent Greek scholars scurrying to Western Europe with manuscripts unknown in the West (and, it is true, Muslim scholars also contributed, via Spain especially, in propagating Greek learning to the West), which resulted in an explosion of ancient scholarship.

    This helps explain why Greek, which was almost an unknown language in the West, exploded into scholastic consciousness after 1500. For more than a thousand years it was considered that Jerome's Vulgate was the pinnacle of scholarship (no matter that its original form had long been lost) when Erasmus and Cardinal Ximenes published new Greek New Testaments that ignored the church hierarchy and appealed to human scholarship, not as heresy but in the belief that human rationality was able to deal with the transmission of the text.

    This influence can be seen across the spectrum in early modern Europe. Calvin is a humanist. Luther, to a lesser extent, is a humanist. The Founding Fathers were, for the most part, Humanists. They looked back for inspiration to the Roman Republic yet never abandoned their Christianity to implement the new government.

    Today's humanists, for the most part, are secular; that is, they believe that man is the measure of all things, an idea that would horrify the Christian Humanists of another day.

    Or something like that.
     
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  14. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I see McCree 79 has posted. I can't disagree with anything he said, but he said it with fewer words.
     
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    But there are Christian humanists today, too, right?
     
  16. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Sure. But they are different animals than the Christian Humanists of the 16th century. They are, for the most part, more closely aligned with the Social Gospel proponents of the 19th and early 20th centuries than with their Renaissance forebears.

    I say this because I consider myself in the Christian Humanist stream and do not abhor the Enlightenment yet do not accept materialism as ultimate reality.
     
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thank you. That helps.
     
  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    3. The first two editions of the Greek NT edited by Erasmus did not include the famous Trinity passage in 1 John 5:7. This verse was not in any Greek mss until the 16th century, but was in a ms of the Latin Bible from the 4th century. For his third edition he reportedly translated the verse from the Latin Vulgate Bible.
     
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    The Comma is in ms 629, a Greek-Latin ms of the 14th century.
     
  20. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Due to the fact that it was made to conform to the Latin. It is Greek largely based on the Latin. Even if Erasmus had access to it, I doubt that he would consider it.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
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