A Good Sound Reading

Sounds like a Calvinist to me, based on his allusions to the active righteousness of Christ and the line "How secure their eternal destiny."

Other than that, there's nothing in it contrary to Arminianism.

On the other hand, it seems rather careless for a Calvinist to say "He redeemed you by his blood," (etc.) since the writer knows only that the reader is burdened by sin, and not that the reader is elect--unless the writer believes that only the elect can be burdened by sin.

 

Frogman,

That is a very wonderful writing there. I am not sure who wrote it.

I want to try and set straight what may be completely misunderstood by many on these debate forums. (not speaking of you by the way)

It is not wrong for people to tell other people to repent and turn to Jesus Christ.

People are supposed to turn and be forgiven.

We are to tell people to have a complete change of heart.

We who have been saved have it in us to want to tell people about Jesus Christ.

Why? The cause! "Be-CAUSE" we have Jesus Christ in us.

It is not our free-will....but rather a changed will. Who changed it? Jesus Christ in us.

People make choices. People have wills.

They are not "free" in any sense of the word free.

The natural man wants nothing of the true living God. He does not understand such things.

That does not mean that people are not looking for and making gods.

When we read in Scripture about freewill offerings it is speaking about giving above and over what was due.

When people put a "free" in front of the words "will" and "choice" those words are modified.

The point is that NO PERSON is capable of turning to Jesus Christ without an effectual cause to do so.

We turn beCAUSE He CAUSES us to turn.

There has to be a cause....why? Simply because we live in a cause and effect world.

God is the ultimate cause of ALL things.

Nothing exists unless God has caused it to exist. (except for God)

People are under His laws.

People were given commandments and were told to keep them.

God has commanded people to choose and obey every law in the book of law.....it does by no means insinuate they are capable of choosing to do so.

If people turn to Jesus Christ they must come in an acceptable way......there will be many that come one day saying "Lord, Lord".

He does not respond to them with any remarks about them knowing Him....He replies "Go away I never knew you".

People will come to Jesus Christ for all kinds of reasons. They will claim to know Him.

They will come for heaven, miracles, food, money, healing, new BMWs, for this, for that,...etc etc.

What is the acceptable way to come to Jesus Christ? What is the way He will accept?

I would like everybody to try a simple experiment.

Try and FREELY-CHOOSE to turn away from Jesus Christ for a week.

WILL it with all the WILL you can muster up.

I know I can't do it.....I dont WILL or want to do it.

I have no desire to do so.....my will is bound. My choices are not free.

I am BOUND to my choice and can't freely-choose otherwise.

My mind, my soul, my conscience, my heart is bound to Him as if I was locked in wonderful unbreakable chains!

I thank Him for freeing me and holding me captive !

By grace you are saved.......

Now WHO really deserves ALL the credit?

Regards, KJB God bless you all!

 

Disclaimer: I said nothing about hardshellers, so let's leave them alone for a minute.

My original observation, and your accurate quotation, mention "Calvinist" and "he redeemed you by his blood."

You have asked why I consider it careless for a Calvinist to use this language. Here's why:

A Calvinist believes in particular redemption: Christ redeemed only the elect.

Was Mr. Oliphant addressing only the elect, or was he addressing sinners generally who are under a burden for their sin? I raised that question originally, suggesting that he was addressing sinners generally (unless he believed that only the elect are burdened by sin).

Therefore, to say "he redeemed you" when, in fact, you may be addressing someone he didn't redeem, is careless.

But you already knew that...

 

Well, of course not! Some of the greatest evangelists in history have been Calvinists.

Mr./Elder Oliphant, because of his great love for the lost, just slipped into Arminian terminology. We all have days like that. Noetic effects of sin, no doubt.

 

When we speak about "perseverance" of the elect.......you could say preservation as well.

Those that are preserved will perservere.

The entire foundation of correct doctrine spelled out as "Saved by grace" is not something missing from Calvinism at all.

But no matter what......the entire proclamation written in Scripture (Saved By grace) defends itself.

It needs no in depth explanations along with mountains of interpretation if it is only read and understood in its most simple form.

To perservere simply means to persist in a state, enterprise, or undertaking in spite of counterinfluences, opposition, or discouragement. Websters

It is God that causes perserverance because the entire salvation process from the start to finish is His.

There is not one small thing the creature can do to merit salvation.

It is all of "His grace".

For it is by grace you have been saved , through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast.

How much more simple do people need it to be?

It reads; saved by grace!

It does not read;

For it is by grace you have been offered the opportunity to be saved if you have enough faith

You have been saved by grace! If you are saved......it was by grace!

We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved...Acts 15

"As for you [believers], you were DEAD in your transgressions and sins [before you became believers], in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air [Satan], the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient......We were by nature objects of [God's] wrath. But because of his great love for us, God who is rich in Mercy, MADE US ALIVE with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved " (Ephesians 2:1-5).

It is grace that preserves and causes perserverance.

Calvinists do know of sovereign grace.

Regards, KJB

 

Purtnere any writing by a Calvinist regarding evangelism would accomplish the same thing. Any Arminian who thinks otherwise is just ignorant.

Of course, how y'all keep up your motivation is a mystery to me, but I readily admit that you do. Whether you do it more than Arminians is an empirical question that can't be examined. In fact, I have no opinion on the question. It could go either way.