A Nation of Baby Killers?

[KenH]

However, I came from the premise as most of the prophets in the Bible did as they interceded for their people.

I understand your point. However, the United States, as a nation, is not ancient Israel and does not stand in relationship to God in the same way that that ancient civilization did.

 

[DHK]

I understand your point. However, the United States, as a nation, is not ancient Israel and does not stand in relationship to God in the same way that that ancient civilization did.

That may be so. But the Bible teaches that every man shall give account of himself before God. I will not give account for you, the presdient, the Queen of England or for anyone else; I shall give account for myself when I stand before God. And that is the most important thing that I must consdier.

 

[Hopeful]

This is an excerpt of a sermon I preached on Sanctity of Life Sunday:

"In researching for this message I found something very interesting. We need to remember that the New Testament as originally written in Greek, and they had had more than one word for our English word, “child.” The most common word, found over 98 times in the New Testament is the word “TEKNON.” This word talks about a child in relation to a parent. But, there is an interesting word for “child” that is found only 8 times in the New Testament that sheds a great deal of light on what the Bible teaches about the unborn. Its the Greek word “BREPHOS.” These are the verses where it is found:
--Acts 7:19 - This man dealt treacherously with our people, and oppressed our forefathers, making them expose their babies [BREPHOS], so that they might not live.
--Luke 18:15 - Then they also brought infants [BREPHOS] to Him that He might touch them; but when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
--2 Timothy 3:15 - and that from childhood [BREPHOS] you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
--1 Peter 2:2 - as newborn babes [BREPHOS], desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,
--Luke 2:12 - And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe [BREPHOS] wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger.
--Luke 2:16 - And they came with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the Babe [BREPHOS] lying in a manger.

"Now in these verses, the word “BREPHOS” describes a baby who has already been born. An infant child who is outside the womb. But there are two other verses that use this word:
--Luke 1:41 - And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe [BREPHOS] leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
--Luke 1:44 - For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe [BREPHOS] leaped in my womb for joy.

"Notice that in these verses the same word used for a child already born is used for a child still in the womb. I believe this makes it clear that God considers the unborn child as much a human being, as much a person as the child outside the womb."

There's just no getting around it. The unborn child is a child.

Thank you for posting this!

 

[donnA]

I understand your point. However, the United States, as a nation, is not ancient Israel and does not stand in relationship to God in the same way that that ancient civilization did.

It will answer for it's sins, as will christians who approve and support evil.

 

[Hopeful]

Individuals commit the sin of abortion, not the nation.

Individuals commit the sins of murder and theft and rape. And yet we, as a nation, have laws that are intended to at least CONTROL and PUNISH those who commit the sins. I believe that is the point of the OP.....if we as Christians DO consider abortion a sin, then shouldn't it be a matter of conscience to reflect that belief in our vote?

For example, what if rape was suddenly declared legal after a whole bunch of "back alley" encounters where it was "questionable" as to whether the woman did or did not "say no"? So a bunch of social engineers got together and decided it would be best to make rape legal in instances where it was unclear as to whether or not the intended rape victim was of ill repute, thereby making it socially acceptable in those instances for a man to force himself upon a woman? (This seems comparable in principle to abortion on demand for convenience.) Would the fact that U.S. laws had suddenly made rape "legal" make it any more moral or any less reprehensible and wrong in God's eyes?

And that's not an off-topic example--it speaks directly to the OP's point about abortion. You better believe that scenario would make many, MANY people (Christian AND non-Christian) "one-issue-voters", because we'd be rallying in droves to elect folks to repeal that law legalizing rape. THAT's the point of the OP (as I see it)--if we believe abortion IS a sin (and I do), how can we in good conscience vote for someone who supports that sin?

 

[Crabtownboy]

According to you, a baby isn't alive until it can survive on it's own.....

According to you, J the B wasn't alive, but yet, he was saved....

I think I'll just let it stand, and let my BB brothers & sisters read what we have put up, and hopefully we've helped someone. I do feel anyone with a brain will see I completely mopped the floor with you, this morning.

I am only telling you when the Bible says life begins. If you do not want to believe the Bible that is your option. As for me, I will accept what the Bible says, even when I am not happy about it.

 

[Crabtownboy]

This is an interesting thread. It started with the acknowledgment that we (the United States) are a nation who commit the sin of abortion. And how difficult it is to vote for a candidate who is pro abortionist. But somewhere along the line it got side tracked. Now I read all the commnents, out of which Bro. Curtis and Crabtownboy's posts are standing out significantly. While I do not wish to get in the way of your debate, I'd like to ask Crabtownboy to clarify something to me - which I did not clearly seen in the staments up to this point. My question is simply this: Is abortion a sin or not?

Now, here is my take on life. As far as life is concerned, life begins at conception and not when the new born is taking his/her first breath. :type:

Barnabas, I really like that name and its true meaning.

I used to argue that life begins at conception, and in a sense I still believe that. But the Bible says life begins with the first breath. That does not mean I am happy about that, but it is the position of the Bible and thus I have to accept that.

Yes, I believe that abortion is a sin. I have looked at this issue in the Bible, and while I oppose abortion I have come to realize that a case against abortion cannot be built from the Bible. As I said earlier, except for one verse. the Bible is silent on abortion ... and even on that one verse a person has to take a very liberal interpretation to say it even deals with abortion. And, if it does, then the verse, in context, comes down on the side of the mother, not the child.

This is such an emotional issue with many that it is impossible to take a calm approach to examining it.

I believe gluttony is a sin.
I believe smoking is a sin.
I believe the misuse of the natural resources God has given us is a sin.
There are many sins ... some are unpopular sins, and some are popular sins. Gluttony is the most popular, uncriticized sin in America ... in my opinion.

 

[carpro]

I am only telling you when the Bible says life begins. If you do not want to believe the Bible that is your option. As for me, I will accept what the Bible says, even when I am not happy about it.

It is your twisted and limited interpretation of what the "Bible says" that is the problem.

But it is, and will remain, your problem. Not mine.

At least , on this issue.

 

[Crabtownboy]

It is your twisted and limited interpretation of what the "Bible says" that is the problem.

But it is, and will remain, your problem. Not mine.

At least , on this issue.

I am not twisting scripture. I am taking it as it is stated. To do otherwise is to take a liberal approach ... if you do this do not call yourself a fundamentalist as you are not. It is very liberal to force the Bible to agree with your opinions.

Let the Bible preach to you. Do not preach to the Bible.

 

[carpro]

I am not twisting scripture. I am taking it as it is stated.

So you say.

 

[Crabtownboy]

So you say.

Show me where I have twisted scripture. Thanks in advance.

 

[carpro]

Show me where I have twisted scripture. Thanks in advance.

This thread tells me [personal attack snipped]
.

 

[Crabtownboy]

This thread tells me you're a waste of time.

I take that as an admission that you can find no scripture twisting in my posts. Glad to know that. Thanks for confirming that for me.

 

[KenH]

It will answer for it's sins

Baloney.

However, since you are part of the nation then I certainly won't stand in your way if you want to answer for it.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

It will answer for it's sins,

How will a nation, apart form God's people, answer for its corporate sin?

 

[Revmitchell]

How will a nation, apart form God's people, answer for its corporate sin?

Much like Sodom and Gamorah

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Much like Sodom and Gamorah

Didn't that happen after all of the righteous people were gone?

 

[Palatka51]

I used to argue that life begins at conception, and in a sense I still believe that. But the Bible says life begins with the first breath. That does not mean I am happy about that, but it is the position of the Bible and thus I have to accept that.

LIfe is in the blood. In the blood is DNA. DNA of an individual is formed at conception. Therefore individual life is formed at conception.

The Bible's recognition of life being in the blood confirms all requirements of individual life at conception. If at conception you, me and all that is here would have been lost to abortion none of us would be able to raise our voices to God Almighty for Salvation so free and glorious by the death, burial and resurrection of His Holy Son Jesus the Christ.

God will judge this nation, the world for this. Abortion is not just an American phenomena it is promoted all over the world.

 

[Palatka51]

Didn't that happen after all of the righteous people were gone?

Not to change the subject but I feel compelled to answer.

Before Lot and family were removed judgment had already begun on Sodom. The citizens were struck with blindness. Very much like what is happening in this thread. Abortionist and their enablers are being blinded in their sin of murder. Even while judgment is at their door they seek to engage their sin even in the affliction of their blindness. Continue to seek this sin and die in judgment.

Come out of it, repent of it and live in righteousness. raying:

Mel

 

[SBCPreacher]

God will judge this nation, the world for this. Abortion is not just an American phenomena it is promoted all over the world.

Could it be that we are already undergoing the judgment of God? Could it be that what we see going on both in our own country and in the world is the beginnings of the judgment of God? I'm not saying that it definitely is, but it does make me think.

If so, then come quickly Lord Jesus!