A Poisonous Snake?

[Salty]

1. Was listening to a mega-church pastor today.
He stated that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was Poisonous.
Ummm, where did I miss that Scripture - or is he just assuming.
During the message, he did mention how taking the venom of the snake
and putting into a lamb help make antivenom for snakebites. And then
he liken that to the fact that is was a lambs blood that was shed for the
remission of sin.

2. This pastor quoted many verses, but never once gave a Scripture text,
in fact he did not even have his Bible with him while he was preaching?

Thoughts?



3) A well know singer was there, but what she sang was a secular song
to honor first responders.
Thoughts



(Yea, I'm getting bored at home - had to start something on the board!)

 

[Calminian]

LOL! Okay, I'll bite (bored also).

There is nothing in Scripture to suggest the Serpent in the garden was poisonous. In fact, Josephus believed he wasn't and wrote that God made the Serpent poisonous after the fall.

Antiq. 1:50 (1.1.4) He also deprived the serpent of speech, out of indignation at his malicious disposition towards Adam. Besides this, he inserted poison under his tongue, and made him an enemy to man; and suggested to them that they should direct their strokes against his head, that being the place wherein lay his mischievous designs towards men, and it being easiest to take vengeance on him that way: and when he had deprived him of the use of his feet, and made him go rolling all along, and dragging himself upon the ground.​

So jewish tradition knows nothing of this either.

Sounds to me like he was making assumptions. Probably has a strange take on the Genesis account.

The secular song to honor respondents is probably not the worst thing ever, but better to focus on the much better sacrifice of Christ.

 

[alexander284]

1) Assumption.

2) I think that's quite common. I've seen it recently in SBC Churches.

3) I have no problem with that.

 

[robycop3]

Phony Baloney. And so are some of Josephus' writings. He was trying to keep Vespasian, then Titus, happy.

 

[canadyjd]

Many sermons seem to begin with false foundations that lead to false points within the sermon in order to make a dramatic connection to the final point.

To bad they don’t find the truth of scripture to be compelling enough not to “dress it up” with assumptions.

I once heard a very popular TV preacher proclaim Adam could fly like Superman because God gave him dominion over the birds of the air. Heard a lot of “amens” and shouting.

peace to you

 

[Calminian]

Phony Baloney. And so are some of Josephus' writings. He was trying to keep Vespasian, then Titus, happy.

Of course Josephus is merely a fallible historian. That said he's a good source to discern ancient jewish interpretation of the OT. The point is, there is nothing in Jewish tradition to suggest the Serpent in the Garden was venomous. Josephus recorded that the snake was altered after the fall, losing his speech (obviously true) and his legs (likely true). He also asserted venom in snakes was believed to be a postlapsarian change.

Scripture certainly supports the idea of mass change after the Fall, both to the snake and all animals. “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals!..." We know thorns came about as a results of the curse. Very possible stingers and quills did as well.

Here's a good chapter to read from The New Answers Book 1 by Answers in Genesis.

Chapter 21
How Did Defense/Attack Structures Come About?

 

[Calminian]

Many sermons seem to begin with false foundations that lead to false points within the sermon in order to make a dramatic connection to the final point.

To bad they don’t find the truth of scripture to be compelling enough not to “dress it up” with assumptions.

I once heard a very popular TV preacher proclaim Adam could fly like Superman because God gave him dominion over the birds of the air. Heard a lot of “amens” and shouting.

peace to you

Yep, good ol Benny Hinn. Said Adam could even fly to space.

 

[Reynolds]

1. Was listening to a mega-church pastor today.
He stated that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was Poisonous.
Ummm, where did I miss that Scripture - or is he just assuming.
During the message, he did mention how taking the venom of the snake
and putting into a lamb help make antivenom for snakebites. And then
he liken that to the fact that is was a lambs blood that was shed for the
remission of sin.

2. This pastor quoted many verses, but never once gave a Scripture text,
in fact he did not even have his Bible with him while he was preaching?

Thoughts?



3) A well know singer was there, but what she sang was a secular song
to honor first responders.
Thoughts



(Yea, I'm getting bored at home - had to start something on the board!)

Bible does not say. All I could do would be to speculate.

 

[Deacon]

I think you can make a strong case for the snake being a messenger of death.
Certainly its message had a bite which was venomous.

What do you call a snake that causes death?

Rob

 

[Salty]

Bible does not say. All I could do would be to speculate.

In a way, I might agree with you - but if we speculate - we should say so.

BTW - the pastor in question is Osteen.

When he (Osteen) stated that the snake was Poisonous - its as though meant he could
back it up with Scripture. --
As pastors - we need to be careful about stating something as fact - if we can not
back it up with Scripture.

Now, is it possible that snake was poisonous - sure, but I dont think he was.
First, there would have been no need to
Second, the purpose was to induce Eve to Sin
Third - was there even any death in the Garden until the Fall.

Again, I have no problem with a pastor speculating - and I have done the same
but we need to let the congregation know that it is simply our opinion.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

One could easily liken the serpent’s deception to poison and say he was venomous, but metaphorically. Not sure how it would matter literally, as he didn’t bite, he deceived.

 

[Marooncat79]

1. Was listening to a mega-church pastor today.
He stated that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was Poisonous.
Ummm, where did I miss that Scripture - or is he just assuming.
During the message, he did mention how taking the venom of the snake
and putting into a lamb help make antivenom for snakebites. And then
he liken that to the fact that is was a lambs blood that was shed for the
remission of sin.

2. This pastor quoted many verses, but never once gave a Scripture text,
in fact he did not even have his Bible with him while he was preaching?

Thoughts?



3) A well know singer was there, but what she sang was a secular song
to honor first responders.
Thoughts



(Yea, I'm getting bored at home - had to start something on the board!)

In response to #1, “poison” is the result of the fall ie it did not exist beforehand. Sin brought forth death and sickness

 

[Jerome]

George Whitefield sermon:

"Already she has contracted some of the serpent's poison, by talking with him, which she ought not to have done at all."

https://www.monergism.com/topics/puritans/george-whitefield

 

[Van]

Serpent appears in scripture about 37 times, and sometimes as a "fiery serpent." This may refer to a red or copper color, but also might refer to the snake being poisonous. Moses used the term "fiery serpent" so his inspired choice not to use the term in Genesis argues against the serpent being a viper.