A question for the Calvinists

Why would a Calvinist's conversion be any different from a NonCalvinist's conversion?

The Bible says we were all sinners before God saved us.

The Bible even says we still struggle with sin after we are saved.

So I guess I don't understand the question.????

 

I can definitely remember. I had been divorced, lived with a woman, and then we got married. About a year later, we both read this one evening:

http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...e_Believe_About_the_Five_Points_of_Calvinism/

I'm seriously not kidding. I had heard a little about calvinism....mainly that it was really bad because it taught that Jesus didn't die for every single human being. I was in the process of getting back into church and at that time, I was studying catholicism. Other than that, I don't remember the circumstances what brought me to that particular article. Anyway, I can remember from that point on.....EVERYTHING changed for both of us. I believe that regeneration took place previous to my having saving faith, but the two were practically instantaneous and happened simultaneously. I remember just reading through it all and by the time I was done, my heart had been changed and I went to bed that night knowing for sure for the first time that I was saved. So, to be clear, I think my regeneration caused me to have faith, but the two happened directly one after the other.

 

Yes...in the sense that I hated the God of the Bible. I did not love the God that I know today. Back then, I would have said that I loved God, but I know now that I didn't. I loved my version of god. Mostly, I loved me.

 

Sounds to me like bad methodology. Rather than determining correct doctrine by what God revealed, you want to judge it by what something "sounds like," by other people's experience, and by your own mind.

Twould be far better to believe the Scriptures. The truth is that for some, regeneration is drastic (such as Paul), and for others it is not as drastic, such as Peter perhaps, or Cornelius, or some others.

The truth is, as was already pointed out, that regeneration is the same whether you are a Calvinist or not. God doesn't change the way he works, based on a person's belief system about soteriology. So you, an Arminian, were regenerated just like me, a Calvinist, was.

 

"Calvinists" also believe in "common grace" -- that while there is "total depravity," God's grace allows people to live and enjoy life to some degree even in their rebellion.

To me, this is very plausible, as it testifies the ever-gracious, loving God who even cares for and blesses complete rebels. It also helps explain how total non-believers can still be nice and even quite lovely.

 

You're Welcome.

 

No I think you have misunderstood what Calvinism teaches. Calvinism agrees with all true Christian Understanding of salvation. Before anyone is saved they are a hell bound sinner. After they are saved they are a heaven bound sinner.

You are trying to pin something on Calvinism that does not exist.

 

I was saved when Jesus became real to me in a Revival Service 53 years ago. I had no intention of being saved. I had refused to talk about it with those who had asked me about it. At the close of the service during the invitation I knew I was a sinner and I knew Jesus was my savior. It was like a light switch had been turned on inside of me. I could not refuse so great a salvation because I clearly understood that Jesus Christ had changed my life.

 

I am not a Calvinist as I have stated many times but I believe in the Doctrines of Grace or the Sovereignty of God in Salvation, including of course the Doctrine of Sovereign Election. I simply would say that Calvinists, me, and you are all saved the same way, by the Grace of God.

 

You have a very distorted view of what some call Calvinism.


Regeneration is a resurrection from the spiritual death.

John 5:25, KJV
25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John Dagg notes [Manual of Theology, pages 277ff] about regeneration:

“So great is the change produced, that the subject of it is called a new creature as if proceeding, like Adam, directly from the creating hand of God; and he is said to be renewed, as being restored to the image of God, in which man was originally formed”

2 Corinthians 5:17, KJV
17. Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Dagg further notes:

“The change is moral. The body is unchanged; and the identity of the mind is not destroyed. The individual is conscious of being the same person that he was before; but a new direction is given to the active powers of the mind, and new affections are brought into exercise. The love of God is shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Ghost. No love to God had previously existed there; for the carnal heart is enmity against God. Love is the fulfilling of the law, the principle of all holy obedience; and when love is produced in the heart, the law of God is written there. As a new principle of action, inciting to a new mode of life, it renders the man a new creature. The production of love in the heart by the Holy Spirit, is the regeneration, or the new birth; for he that loveth, is born of God.”

“The mode in which the Holy Spirit effects this change, is beyond our understanding. All God's ways are unsearchable; and we might as well attempt to explain how he created the world, as how he new-creates the soul. With reference to this subject, the Saviour said, The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.[John 3:8, KJV] We know, from the Holy Scriptures, that God employs his truth in the regeneration of the soul. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.[James 1:18, KJV] Love to God necessarily implies knowledge of God, and this knowledge it is the province of truth to impart. But knowledge is not always connected with love. The devils know, but do not love; and wicked men delight not to retain the knowledge of God, because their knowledge of him is not connected with love. The mere presentation of the truth to the mind, is not all that is needed, in producing love to God in the heart.”

God through the richness of His grace has granted to His elect spiritual life so that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. [Ephesians 2:7]

I don't see anything in the above that support your faulty understanding of regeneration. Incidentally, whether you believe it or not, every person saved is regenerated by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus Christ teaches in John 3:8, and then given the gift of faith, as He again teaches in Ephesians 2:8.

 

Actually, arminianism does not always believe one can lose their salvation. In terms of comparison, the line is drawn through unconditional election. If you affirm it, you are a Calvinist, or Calvinistic. If you deny it, you are Arminian, or Arminianistic.

Obviously not, or you would believe what I believe, because I am a Bible believer. ... Obviously, you can see the uselessness of that designation in this discussion. Everyone claims to believe the Bible.

I htink perhaps you don't understand. Calvinism teaches that man is in complete rebellion but that he experiences God's common grace so that he is not as bad as he could be.

How do you know this?

Sounds like you were regenerated first, since there is no way you could have heard and understood and believed without it. At least that's what most Calvinists would say. As I said above, you may deny regeneration, but you still participate in it.

The same way anyone gets saved. By believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.