A Secret Rapture? How Can It Be?

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Darby & Scofield??

Am I to assume that dispensationalists are a privileged class and they can utilize a debate forum to pat each other on the back while those who reject the error of dispensationalism sit idly by. I believe your doctrine is wrong, therefore, I submit the following Scripture for your prayerful consideration.

2 Timothy4:1-4
1. I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Of course you can always petition the administrators to establish a separate Dispensationalism Forum where only those who hold that doctrine can participate. Then you can spend your time building each other up rather than study and understand Scripture through the eyes of the Holy Spirit instead of Darby/Scofield.

Finally it is a fact that many are deserting the classic dispensationalist teaching regarding both the "parenthesis" Church and the pre-trib eschatology. For that fact I thank God.

I'm sorry you insist on having your way. It changes nothing and the scriptures you have posted lend nothing to your argument. I believe in the sound preaching and teaching of God's Word in regards to the things of prophecy and the end-times. The things I believe are NOT fables regardless of your opinion. As for Darby and Scofield..yes..I know who they are but I didn't get what I believe from either of them. These issues have been argued back and forth for years to no avail. I just asked you to respect the thread that I posted for a specific purpose. I would afford you the same respect that I have asked of you and I can assure you that IF YOU EVER (and I want everybody to take note of this) START A THREAD for the purpose of discussing your particular doctrinal position or bias I will NOT treat your thread the same way you have treated mine NO MATTER HOW BAD I DISAGREE WITH IT OR YOU. I am NOT that disrespectful.( I encourage anyone who has read this to feel free to help keep me honest as a matter of accountability) I think it is clear to everybody here that has read this exchange that you and I strongly disagree with each other. We will continue to do so until Christ straightens BOTH OF US OUT (in whichever ways either of us needs to be straightened out at His Judgement Seat). I can tell one thing for sure (or at least I think I can). Both of us do very genuinely believe the positions we hold to. I'm genuinely sorry that there is a division between us. I know these things hurt the heart of our God. There is just no telling what things could be like if we all just died to our fleshly pride. Though I cannot not disagree with you, I will not argue any further. I am at peace with what I believe My Lord has revealed to me from His Word.

Bro.Greg

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

True...!

Greg.... if you will allow me this side comment!

most people, if you have been here long enough, are on somebodies ignore list....soon nobody will be able to talk to anyone cause......We are all on each others "Ignore" list...LOL!!! :smilewinkgrin:

No problem E,W & F...you are right I guess. The truth is though that probably the ones we'd like to "Ignore" are either too "noisy" or too "insufferable" to be ignored. I'm beginning to feel like I have been "water-boarded":smilewinkgrinon the one hand) &:tearon the other)! I guess I need to put on more armor.

Bro.Greg

 

[HankD]

A secret but IMO not the idea of a secret rapture where Christ comes and sneaks the saints out of the way of judgement but a "secret" of wilful ignorance because of the pleasures of this life taking precedence over the care of one's soul.​

Matthew 24
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.​

Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.​

In each case (Noah and Lot) a remnant is taken out of the way of judgement - Noah and family, Lot and family.​

HankD​

 

[OldRegular]

I'm sorry you insist on having your way. It changes nothing and the scriptures you have posted lend nothing to your argument. I believe in the sound preaching and teaching of God's Word in regards to the things of prophecy and the end-times. The things I believe are NOT fables regardless of your opinion. As for Darby and Scofield..yes..I know who they are but I didn't get what I believe from either of them.

It is you who insist on having your way. As I said previously if you want a forum where dispensationalists can prop themselves and their doctrine up then petition the Administrators to establish such a Forum.

It is a fact that dispensational premillennialism [with its "parenthesis" Church, the pre-trib rapture, and the Jewish millennium] was developed during the 19th century primarily through the effort of John Nelson Darby of the Plymouth [England] Brethern. Some historians, believe that Darby was influenced by the supposed vision of Margaret Macdonald of Port Glasgow, Scotland. Dispensationalism was popularized in this country by C. I. Scofield and his Scofield Reference Bible.

 

[OldRegular]

Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.​

In each case (Noah and Lot) a remnant is taken out of the way of judgement - Noah and family, Lot and family.​

HankD​

The Apostle Peter makes a similar prophecy:

2 Peter 3:10-13
10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The term "thief in the night" has nothing to do with secrecy. It simply means that the time of the return of Jesus Christ is known only in the Godhead. Both Luke and Peter tell us that coming will be accompanied by fire and heat!​

 

[Mexdeaf]

I for one refuse to make a belief in a pre-trib, post-mill, or a-mill a point of separation.

As dear departed Dr. Fred Afman used to say, "there are good men on all sides of this issue."

 

[Yeshua1]

I for one refuse to make a belief in a pre-trib, post-mill, or a-mill a point of separation.

As dear departed Dr. Fred Afman used to say, "there are good men on all sides of this issue."

Agreed, as it should NOT be a dividing issue, for what WOULD divide is if one denied there is still an actual Second coming in the Future, NOT as to how that all works out!

 

[OldRegular]

Agreed, as it should NOT be a dividing issue, for what WOULD divide is if one denied there is still an actual Second coming in the Future, NOT as to how that all works out!

Then why would anyone want to exclude some Christians from participating in a discussion topic? I don't recall seeing any threads limited exclusively to

1. those who are amillennial,
2. those who are historic premillennial,
3. those who are postmillennial,
4. those who are full preterist,
5. or those who believe the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace.

If I am wrong I would appreciate correction!

 

[Revmitchell]

Then why would anyone want to exclude some Christians from participating in a discussion topic? I don't recall seeing any threads limited exclusively to

1. those who are amillennial,
2. those who are historic premillennial,
3. those who are postmillennial,
4. those who are full preterist,
5. or those who believe the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace.

If I am wrong I would appreciate correction!

Why do you care. There are plenty of threads on a daily basis. For crying out loud get over your self.

 

[OldRegular]

Why do you care. There are plenty of threads on a daily basis. For crying out loud get over your self.

You are welcome to join the discussion. It is really unseemly for a "rev" to make personal and snide remarks as Icon has already told you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Then why would anyone want to exclude some Christians from participating in a discussion topic? I don't recall seeing any threads limited exclusively to

1. those who are amillennial,
2. those who are historic premillennial,
3. those who are postmillennial,
4. those who are full preterist,
5. or those who believe the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace.

If I am wrong I would appreciate correction!

Wow...you forgot me in this list .....Panmillennial....translation: it will all Pan out.:laugh: Probably the largest growing group next to the Atheists (who Im sure will grow more after seeing this ridiculous series of commentaries)

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Because I thought I could....

Then why would anyone want to exclude some Christians from participating in a discussion topic? I don't recall seeing any threads limited exclusively to

1. those who are amillennial,
2. those who are historic premillennial,
3. those who are postmillennial,
4. those who are full preterist,
5. or those who believe the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace.

If I am wrong I would appreciate correction!

I was simply attempting (and now I know folks like YOU won't allow me too) to establish and carry on a discussion among LIKE-MINDED believers about a chosen topic...and the topic was NOT any of the topics on your little "top 5" list. Incidently, like your "take" on my beliefs, I don't personally believe ANY of those 5 "positions" is correct even though some, and probably all of them may contain elements of the truth. You and I are only similar in one respect (unfortunately) we both think our opinions are immovable Biblical FACT. Even I have to admit that that is the problem with dogmas. However, I am certain that God IS dogmatic about His Truth. I'm just trying to find out what it is so I can get in line with it. Not an easy job for anyone clothed in flesh. About Eschatology, I believe I am right about what I believe or I wouldn't believe it. You would say the same I'm sure. You keep posting large "swaths" of scripture to bolster your viewpoint. When I read them (and I do) I draw an entirely different conclusion about what they mean from a doctrinal and contextual viewpoint. I know of no solution to the problem. I mean you no ill-will and if I have sounded that way then please forgive me. The only way I know of to maybe put this thing to rest is possibly to withdraw from even discussing this...in a thread of my own origin. Crazy.

:tonofbricks:Bro.Greg

 

[OldRegular]

Wow...you forgot me in this list .....Panmillennial....translation: it will all Pan out.:laugh: Probably the largest growing group next to the Atheists (who Im sure will grow more after seeing this ridiculous series of commentaries)

I did forget. Please accept my humble apologies. I have often used that expression myself, perhaps on this Forum, and that is one doctrine we can all trust in.